To Culture, from Economics

[Secret Chief]

Having patently lost the claim to economic competency and the future being a place where we will be better off if we vote right wing, there seems to be a movement towards a greater emphasis on perceived cultural threats.

Thoughts?

 

[Estro Felino]

I understood nothing, honestly.
Just think my native language is a Romance language and we tend to use as many words as possible to express such complex conxept. Not to save them.
Could you elaborate?

 

[Secret Chief]

I understood nothing, honestly.
Just think my native language is a Romance language and we tend to use as many words as possible to express such complex conxept. Not to save them.
Could you elaborate?

No problem.

Here in the UK, the right wing (ie Tory party) traditionally have proclaimed they are the party of good economic management. The negative they pressed was that a left wing government would be an economic disaster. This was the main thrust of their marketing. Of late people seem to have finally noticed 10 years of Tory austerity has had a terrible economic effect on much of the country.
Possibly taking their cue from the US (as we like to do) the Tory party seem to be shifting their focus to cultural matters (ie nationalism by another name). "We can't or won't manage the country economically, but we stick up for our under-threat British values, culture, way of life, traditions..."

 

[Estro Felino]

No problem.

Here in the UK, the right wing (ie Tory party) traditionally have proclaimed they are the party of good economic management. The negative they pressed was that a left wing government would be an economic disaster. This was the main thrust of their marketing. Of late people seem to have finally noticed 10 years of Tory austerity has had a terrible economic effect on much of the country.
Possibly taking their cue from the US (as we like to do) the Tory party seem to be shifting their focus to cultural matters (ie nationalism by another name). "We can't or won't manage the country economically, but we stick up for our under-threat British values, culture, way of life, traditions..."

I see. I think the West has been extremely tolerant towards other different cultures, other than ours.
Society can determine economics too, if we think that our economic models were elaborated in a Europe which has always been European.
With its own history and values.
After all...the root of the word socialism is the Latin socius which meant ally. I guess we are supposed to be all allies in a society.
And to be all allies, we must share similar and/or common values.

 

[Secret Chief]

I see. I think the West has been extremely tolerant towards other different cultures, other than ours.
Society can determine economics too, if we think that our economic models were elaborated in a Europe which has always been European.
With its own history and values.
After all...the root of the word socialism is the Latin socius which meant ally. I guess we are supposed to be all allies in a society.
And to be all allies, we must share similar and/or common values.

What is your take on this with regard to Italy?

(btw I see you tick against Socialism and Conservative DIRs. How come?)

 

[Estro Felino]

What is your take on this with regard to Italy?

(btw I see you tick against Socialism and Conservative DIRs. How come?)

Actually we in Italy have so many parties that is really difficult to understand which is right-wing and which is left-wing.
We do not have any Conservative Party.
The right-wing has two souls: one is liberal, pro-EU. The other is more socialist-like, and slightly anti-EU.
Italy has known pure socialism, with a very sophisticated labor legislation whose symbol was Art. 18. Art 18 stated that it is illegal to fire someone without just case.
And the term "just" was interpreted in favor of the employee, not of the employer.
Then the UE has been imposing new labor models. That brought to the suppression of Art 18.

 

[Secret Chief]

Then the UE has been imposing new labor models

Do you see the EU as anti-socialist?

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you see the EU as anti-socialist?

Absolutely. They are for cutting public expenditure on healthcare, education, etc...
Austerity measures.

 

[ChristineM]

No problem.

Here in the UK, the right wing (ie Tory party) traditionally have proclaimed they are the party of good economic management. The negative they pressed was that a left wing government would be an economic disaster. This was the main thrust of their marketing. Of late people seem to have finally noticed 10 years of Tory austerity has had a terrible economic effect on much of the country.
Possibly taking their cue from the US (as we like to do) the Tory party seem to be shifting their focus to cultural matters (ie nationalism by another name). "We can't or won't manage the country economically, but we stick up for our under-threat British values, culture, way of life, traditions..."

What are british values? Britain has always, since the last ice age at least, been a multicultural country, is this a british british value?

I have asked this question in several ways several times of our resident right winger @Notanumber and had no meaningful response.

 

[Secret Chief]

What are british values?

Hold on, I was describing what I see.

I don't accept values have geographical borders.

 

[Secret Chief]

Absolutely. They are for cutting public expenditure on healthcare, education, etc...
Austerity measures.

Would you like Italy to exit the EU?

 

[Estro Felino]

Would you like Italy to exit the EU?

The Eurozone first. Or the EU too.

 

[Tambourine]

Having patently lost the claim to economic competency and the future being a place where we will be better off if we vote right wing, there seems to be a movement towards a greater emphasis on perceived cultural threats.

Thoughts?

Absolutely. And as visions of a better future have lost their lustre in the face of global warming, welfare cuts and deindustrialization, the mainstream discourse has turned towards nostalgia and a reactionary outlook towards life and politics.

The hierarchies that are the core of all right-wing ideologies gives people a certain amount of comfort, a belief that if only they subjugate others they will be "safe" within their place in society.

 

[ChristineM]

Hold on, I was describing what I see.

I don't accept values have geographical borders.

I was replying to

"but we stick up for our under-threat British values, culture, way of life,"

Not particularly aimed at you but those who claim sacrosanct british values without having a clue what they are.

 

[Secret Chief]

The Eurozone first. Or the EU too.

OK. Are you aware of the downsides as per the UK imminent withdrawal?

 

[Secret Chief]

Absolutely. And as visions of a better future have lost their lustre in the face of global warming, welfare cuts and deindustrialization, the mainstream discourse has turned towards nostalgia and a reactionary outlook towards life and politics.

The hierarchies that are the core of all right-wing ideologies gives people a certain amount of comfort, a belief that if only they subjugate others they will be "safe" within their place in society.

God, you're worse than me

 

[Estro Felino]

OK. Are you aware of the downsides as per the UK imminent withdrawal?

In fact we don't want to exit the EU. Just the €.
If the EU had been different, UK would have never left.

 

[Tambourine]

God, you're worse than me

Vienna used to be the model city for a democratic socialism, and people are still proud of the welfare system the Austrian Social Democratic government pushed through.

These days, the dominating media topics besides COVID are anti-migration, anti-Islam, and nostalgia. Social Democracy has been crumbling and unable to put forward a positive vision, and now are basically just engaged in a fighting retreat as the welfare state we used to be so proud of is slowly being eroded by conservative policies to the cheers of a substantial portion of the population.

So yea, as a progressive socialist I do feel kind of glum about the prevalent atmosphere in my country.

 

[Stevicus]

Having patently lost the claim to economic competency and the future being a place where we will be better off if we vote right wing, there seems to be a movement towards a greater emphasis on perceived cultural threats.

Thoughts?

I think racism, nationalism, and capitalism share a certain commonality in that they're all somewhat rooted in social Darwinism and the idea that "only the strong shall survive." They ostensibly believe in a "natural right" for the strong, powerful, and wealthy to dominate and rule over the weak, powerless, and impoverished.

Today's capitalists tend to argue that they support a kinder, gentler, sanitized version of capitalism which doesn't involve exploitation, slavery, racism, abuse, sweatshops, cheating, lying, corruption, or anything bad at all. Some might even claim to be liberals and enlightened, yet they still seem to display a similar superior attitude when they decide they know what's best for all the "little people."

 

[Tambourine]

I was replying to

"but we stick up for our under-threat British values, culture, way of life,"

Not particularly aimed at you but those who claim sacrosanct british values without having a clue what they are.

I mean that's true of all of these "values" types isn't it? It's all just vapid nonsense to hide the obvious racism.