To Bible Truth (On Biblical Slavery)

[Jistyr]

Bible Truth,

In your thread LDS and Evangelical men – Discussing spiritual truths for the sake of our families I had asked you a question regarding slavery in the Bible. I posted in the thread and this portion of the post was to you:

But to Bible Truth who believes that if something is in the Bible it is not to be questioned: I don't believe you think twice before you say anything in the Bible is justified.

Since the Bible is obviously sexist, (and anyone who says it is not by way of 'interpretation' should check up on their reading skills) I wonder what you think of the verses that state that slavery is okay. Do you believe that slavery should be allowed in America?

I'm ineterested to see what you will say. Will you dare to 'disobey the word of God' or will you choose to be the most heartless and mindless person on this forum? So please, Bible Truth, since slavery is allowed in the Bible, tell me if you believe we should reform our government and implement slavery yet again?

Oh and Bible Truth, please do not clutter your response with quotes. Tell me what you feel.

That was what I said in regards to his rather sexist statements in the thread, and he politely asked that I create an entirely separate thread in order to adress my question. Since asked, I was inclined to do so... and here is the thread.

I would mostly like to hear from Bible Truth about his stance on slavery in the Bible with the same response asked for in my original post, but this thread is open to anyone else to discuss the topic as always.

And to anyone that does not know of quotes in the Bible that promote slavery I will be more than happy to present them to you.

So Bible Truth, what are your thoughts?

 

[The Seeker]

The fact that slavery is accepted in the Bible is probably the first thing that started my detachment from Christianity. Although I believe that Jesus was a very wise man, the fact that he didn't speak out against slavery tells me that he isn't the son of God. And if he is the son of God, then I would no more worship God then I would George Bush.

 

[Mustard Seed]

The fact that slavery is accepted in the Bible is probably the first thing that started my detachment from Christianity. Although I believe that Jesus was a very wise man, the fact that he didn't speak out against slavery tells me that he isn't the son of God. And if he is the son of God, then I would no more worship God then I would George Bush.

I have never read anywhere in the NT where Jesus supported slavery.
Do you remember any specific passages?

 

[MaddLlama]

I think theres a larger question to be considered here:
Are there aspects of the Bible that aren't applicable to modern life, such as slavery and stoning children, or are all the things in the bible literally applicable to people of all times?

 

[Aqualung]

I don't remember any specific passages that support slavery... I remember some where people are commanded on how to act in a society that has slavery, but nothing where it's actually supported. Could you reference some?

 

[lunamoth]

Jesus did speak out against slavery, and the subjugation of women, and the oppression of homosexuals.

Which part of 'love one another' would support any of those things?

 

[Mustard Seed]

I think theres a larger question to be considered here:
Are there aspects of the Bible that aren't applicable to modern life, such as slavery and stoning children, or are all the things in the bible literally applicable to people of all times?

Good question.
It's obvious that there are things in the Bible that cannot be taken literally in today's society. From the beginning of the Bible to the end, there is a vast time frame and things (cultural wise ) were different.
I really think that the most important part of the Bible is the Gospel and Jesus message. I believe the Gospel is still relevant today. There are still truth's to be found in the OT but not the most important.
He is truly the living "word." So we really only need look at him for guidance.

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

There was a manservant and a bond servant... in order to be a manservant the person needs to be under some kind of dept or has nothing this person has to be paid. After 7 years the dept and the person is set free but if the person of his or her free will decides to stay with the master then that person is a bond servant but his or her childern are free unless they fall into the same kind of agreement this agreement of bond servant is for all eternity to serve his or her master. later on slavery without an out was against the law of God. i thank that this law is in Lev, judges, Samuel, and a couple of other places as the people changed and the issues changed so did the law, this is about the extent that i know about the subject...

 

[lunamoth]

Actually, if we want to be Biblical about slavery and related issues, I say we go for the OT Jubliee version in which every seven years all slaves are set free and all debts cancelled. We are after all slave to our debts.

Wouldn't that be a kick into reality for our economcs system!

 

[The Seeker]

I have never read anywhere in the NT where Jesus supported slavery.
Do you remember any specific passages?

I'm not saying that Jesus advocated slavery, but the fact that he didn't speak out against it makes me question his holiness. For example in Luke Ch 7, Jesus saves the life of a slave at the master's request, but doesn't condemn the master for having a slave. There are many other instances in the Gospels where Jesus speaks about slaves but doesn't condemn the practice. Most people believe that we have "God given rights" one of which is freedom. Yet the Bible is full of stories about slavery. Kinda ironic if you ask me.

 

[nutshell]

I'm not saying that Jesus advocated slavery, but the fact that he didn't speak out against it makes me question his holiness. For example in Luke Ch 7, Jesus saves the life of a slave at the master's request, but doesn't condemn the master for having a slave. There are many other instances in the Gospels where Jesus speaks about slaves but doesn't condemn the practice. Most people believe that we have "God given rights" one of which is freedom. Yet the Bible is full of stories about slavery. Kinda ironic if you ask me.

Perhaps Jesus did speak out against slavery, but the writers/editors of the Bible "forgot" to put it in because they enjoyed the lifestyle built on slave labor.

 

[Comprehend]

I think theres a larger question to be considered here:
Are there aspects of the Bible that aren't applicable to modern life, such as slavery and stoning children, or are all the things in the bible literally applicable to people of all times?

I think that is a good point and one that some bible believers do not seem to consider. This is one reason why we believe a prophet is necessary, because what is needed at one time is not necessarily the best idea for another time.

 

[Booko]

The fact that slavery is accepted in the Bible is probably the first thing that started my detachment from Christianity. Although I believe that Jesus was a very wise man, the fact that he didn't speak out against slavery tells me that he isn't the son of God. And if he is the son of God, then I would no more worship God then I would George Bush.

It would be worth looking into the Jewish perspective on slavery and the way it was practiced in the culture that produced the Hebrew Bible.

What passed for slavery in the U.S. would *never* have cut the mustard with Jewish law. :no:

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

I'm not saying that Jesus advocated slavery, but the fact that he didn't speak out against it makes me question his holiness. For example in Luke Ch 7, Jesus saves the life of a slave at the master's request, but doesn't condemn the master for having a slave. There are many other instances in the Gospels where Jesus speaks about slaves but doesn't condemn the practice. Most people believe that we have "God given rights" one of which is freedom. Yet the Bible is full of stories about slavery. Kinda ironic if you ask me.

i thank one thing that Jesus understood well is stewardship or taking care of what has been given. the person who is in charge of many weather it be a country, or man-servants will be judged according to how well the person took care of the responsibility. this life is but a blink of an eye compared to the rest of the eternities, there are not that many lives that compare to Job's "with friends like his who needs enemies..."

 

[The Seeker]

Perhaps Jesus did speak out against slavery, but the writers/editors of the Bible "forgot" to put it in because they enjoyed the lifestyle built on slave labor.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama
I think theres a larger question to be considered here:
Are there aspects of the Bible that aren't applicable to modern life, such as slavery and stoning children, or are all the things in the bible literally applicable to people of all times?

IMO if the Bible is the word of God, then it should be applicable to people of all times. If it isn't applicable to all people, then who gets to decide what is and what isn't applicable?

It would be worth looking into the Jewish perspective on slavery and the way it was practiced in the culture that produced the Hebrew Bible.

What passed for slavery in the U.S. would *never* have cut the mustard with Jewish law. :no:

I looked it up and the Jewish perspective of slavery seems to resemble indentured servitude practiced by the early Americans. However, I still believe that even this is wrong, which is why it is no longer practiced in the world. In my mind, it is never right for one man to own another for any given period of time.

 

[sojourner]

What we're talking about here is a practice known as "debt-slavery." if someone owed a debt that they could not repay, they had to "work off the debt" to the debtor, for a period not to exceed seven years. Jacob was a debt-slave to Laban, both for Rachel and Leah.

Debt-slavery is part of a culture and a governmental system that was loosely based on the family system. And there were specific laws concerning how a debt-slave was to be treated, and there were payment conditions upon that slave's release. The first concern in that society was to protect the family. Debt-slavery was part of that concern.

Doesn't make the kind of slavery we practiced here remotely supportable by Biblical tenet.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Perhaps Jesus did speak out against slavery, but the writers/editors of the Bible "forgot" to put it in because they enjoyed the lifestyle built on slave labor.

I don't think that this is likely. Most Christians in early times were poor and did not own slaves. Christian bishops did have a problem with their church members selling themselves into slavery to give the money to the church to help feed the community.

 

[Jistyr]

I don't remember any specific passages that support slavery... I remember some where people are commanded on how to act in a society that has slavery, but nothing where it's actually supported. Could you reference some?

I'm sorry that I'm a bit late to respond, but here are a few quotes. I think it can't be questioned whether or not the Bible supports slavery with scriptures like these:

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given. (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

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I think theres a larger question to be considered here:
Are there aspects of the Bible that aren't applicable to modern life, such as slavery and stoning children, or are all the things in the bible literally applicable to people of all times?

That is the main question I'm getting at and why I want Bible Truth to respond to me. (But for some reason even though he's been on very often recently he still won't answer my question. Hmm... :sarcastic ) I'm trying to say that the Bible can have a positive affect, but nobody should use it to be sexist against women, to hate homosexuals, and so on, because the Bible is NOT a reasonable basis for persecution.

I just cannot stand people saying other people's ways are flawed because of what the Bible says. We all know that slavery is wrong, but the Bible says its right, so we can deduce that some things in the Bible are not at all reasonable in modern society.

 

[Jistyr]

What we're talking about here is a practice known as "debt-slavery." if someone owed a debt that they could not repay, they had to "work off the debt" to the debtor, for a period not to exceed seven years. Jacob was a debt-slave to Laban, both for Rachel and Leah.

Debt-slavery is part of a culture and a governmental system that was loosely based on the family system. And there were specific laws concerning how a debt-slave was to be treated, and there were payment conditions upon that slave's release. The first concern in that society was to protect the family. Debt-slavery was part of that concern.

Doesn't make the kind of slavery we practiced here remotely supportable by Biblical tenet.

Some of it actually applied to slavery for life, but even if it is not the same as the slavery that was practiced in America you can be sure that people would twist the scriptures (as they do today) to support their unreasonable beliefs.

 

[bible truth]

Bible Truth,

In your thread LDS and Evangelical men – Discussing spiritual truths for the sake of our families I had asked you a question regarding slavery in the Bible. I posted in the thread and this portion of the post was to you:



That was what I said in regards to his rather sexist statements in the thread, and he politely asked that I create an entirely separate thread in order to adress my question. Since asked, I was inclined to do so... and here is the thread.

I would mostly like to hear from Bible Truth about his stance on slavery in the Bible with the same response asked for in my original post, but this thread is open to anyone else to discuss the topic as always.

And to anyone that does not know of quotes in the Bible that promote slavery I will be more than happy to present them to you.

So Bible Truth, what are your thoughts?

The Bible declares to be the Word of God...God breathed by an infinite mind. People have been studying the Bible for thousands of years. We are finite fallen creatures. Here's a link on biblical slavery for you to study. Please make sure you consider all of the biblical references to slavery. - BT

http://bibleresources.bible.com/key...ion1=31&numpageresults=25&sortorder=bookorder

Please study all of the references in the Bible in regards to slavery. After you do your due diligence, let's talk about. - BT