Three days, three nights...

[Redemptionsong]

Adstar, I believe you said that you thought that the Passover may have been on a Thursday. If it was a Thursday (14 Nisan), and not a Wednesday (14 Nisan), that would take us to Pentecost on the 6 Sivan, which holds to the traditional Jewish date of Shavuot.

There is another good reason for accepting this; the sign of Jonah is three DAYS and three NIGHTS - in that order. Therefore if we calculate the 14 Nisan as a day (in part) and 17 Nisan as a night (in part) we have the correct order and the correct number of days and nights.

Also, if you read Joshua 5:10 -12, it says that they celebrated the passover (sacrifice) on 14 Nisan 'at even'. This means the feast was on the 15 Nisan. It then says that they ate the old corn 'on the morrow', Nisan 15, 'after the passover'. Then the manna ceased 'on the morrow' (Nisan 16). On 16 Nisan they ate the fruit (new corn) of Canaan.

If you overlay this on to Adstar's Thursday Passover, you have Friday the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Then Nisan 16 is the weekly Sabbath and the resurrection takes place on the evening of Nisan 17, the Sunday night. Nisan 16 would also be the first day of the festival of Weeks, as Joshua suggests.

Ken, is your objection to this all based on the preparation of the spices?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Two other sources that add weight to the argument that the first fruits counting started on the 16 Nisan are:

Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews III, X, 5, where it says, 'But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them.'

In the JPS Jewish Study Bible, the notes on Leviticus 23:11,15, say 'The Pharisaic sages, claiming that the word 'sabbath' is used here in its nonspecific, literal sense ('cessation') but does not indicate the weekly Sabbath day, vehemently asserted that the 'omer' is presented on the day after the day of rest at the beginning of the 'matzot' pilgrimage, namely, the sixteenth of Nisan.'

I'm leaning more and more towards this traditional interpretation.

 

[crazyrussian]

I believe that God is perfect, and that his WORD is a perfect expression of Truth.

Making such a claim may seem foolish and easy to counter, but so far I have not heard anything on these threads that amounts to a scriptural contradiction.

It surprises me that the issue of the length of time that Jesus is meant to have been entombed has not featured more prominently. For it is an issue that causes difficulty.

I understand from Matthew 12:40 that Jesus was to be in the tomb for 'three days and three nights'.

It is this issue that I would like to discuss, to clarify in my own mind whether it was intended literally or not. I believe it was meant literally, but as yet I cannot supply the evidence.

Anyone like to start us off?

Jesus was in the Tomb literally for 3 days and 3 nights. All the evidence you need to prove this is found at the below link.

http://thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the death and resurrection.pdf

The bottom portion of the time line illustration below is a short summary of 3 days and 3 nights in fulfilment.

 

[crazyrussian]

What I found most fascinating during my studies of this topic, is that the time line of the original Passover Lamb of Exodus 12 is consistent with the 30 AD time line of the Passover in which Passover occurred on a Wednesday and over 9 time specific prophecies point to 5 April 30 AD as the correct year for the Crucifixion!

What I also found Fascinating is, there is still one Gospel in existence which illustrates Jesus fulfilling the 4 day time specific prophecy of the Lamb being chosen by the people on the 10th day and killed 4 days later. This single Gospel reference is the only ancient text which also provides the documentation needed to show Jesus in the tomb for the full duration of the 3 days and 3 nights.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, originated from this one gospel text and were apparently broken up into their current format by the roman Christians over the course of the first 300 years of Christian history.

The gospel in question is the Gospel of holy 12 which is Factually proven by my studies to be an ancient reference. The fact based evidence is provided in the link from my prior post.

Enjoy!

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, I believe you said that you thought that the Passover may have been on a Thursday. If it was a Thursday (14 Nisan), and not a Wednesday (14 Nisan), that would take us to Pentecost on the 6 Sivan, which holds to the traditional Jewish date of Shavuot.

There is another good reason for accepting this; the sign of Jonah is three DAYS and three NIGHTS - in that order. Therefore if we calculate the 14 Nisan as a day (in part) and 17 Nisan as a night (in part) we have the correct order and the correct number of days and nights.

Also, if you read Joshua 5:10 -12, it says that they celebrated the passover (sacrifice) on 14 Nisan 'at even'. This means the feast was on the 15 Nisan. It then says that they ate the old corn 'on the morrow', Nisan 15, 'after the passover'. Then the manna ceased 'on the morrow' (Nisan 16). On 16 Nisan they ate the fruit (new corn) of Canaan.

If you overlay this on to Adstar's Thursday Passover, you have Friday the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Then Nisan 16 is the weekly Sabbath and the resurrection takes place on the evening of Nisan 17, the Sunday night. Nisan 16 would also be the first day of the festival of Weeks, as Joshua suggests.

Ken, is your objection to this all based on the preparation of the spices?

Sorry since the change in the format of this forum i have not seen this thread.

I believe passover started on Tuesday sunset and ended on Wednesday sunset. So Tuesday 6.pm to Wednesday 6 pm was the passover day.

"""""Also, if you read Joshua 5:10 -12, it says that they celebrated the passover (sacrifice) on 14 Nisan 'at even'. This means the feast was on the 15 Nisan.""""

No i believe the Bible is the inspired word of God if the passover meal had happened on the evening of Nisan 15th then the Bible would have said it happened on the 15th of Nisan. But it said on the evening of the 14th of Nisan so to me it happened on the evening of the 14th of Nisan and that was the start of the 14th of Nisan..

 

[Adstar]

Crazy Russian

You might want to look at the link here. I believe also that the year was 30 AD but the dates are slightly different. Have a look and a read.

Resurrection When?

 

[Bick]

To my fellow Bible students: I believe the following will clearify this seeming discrepancy.
Quoting from the Companion Bible Appendix 165 by E.W. Bullinger:
The day of preparation befpre Passover, 14th Nissan, began on Wednesday (Tuesday sun down), the day Jesus was crucified on (John 19:31). It was the third hour of the day (9:00 A,M.) (Mark 15:25). On the 6th hour (our noon) darkness was over the land until the 9th hour, then Jesus gave up His spirit and died.
He was laid in the sepulchre

 

[1prophet]

You folks are ridiculous. If you folks would quit practicing religion and let the bible speak to you then you can figure this out. So many Christians like to take their preconceived answer and then make the bible fit regarding what the bible says that does not fit.

IT SAYS - 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS. 72 hours. What is this you do not get? You cannot be put in a tomb on Friday and get out Sunday and have it be 3 days and 3 nights. Lets look at what the bible says:

1. Matthew 28:1 - at the end of the Sabbath..........it was the end of the Sabbath. The REGULAR weekly sabbath. Saturday, and he was GONE when Mary showed up. If we trace back 72 hours we find he was killed on Wednesday at 3 pm. This was the day of Passover in that year which was the year 28 - not 33. Jesus was born in -6.

The day of the Feast of Unleavened bread was Wednesday night, the 2nd day of the Passover season. That night is ALSO A HIGH SABBATH. That week, as does 3 times a year, there are 2 sabbaths in the week. Mary went for herbs on thursday for anointing, she stopped shopping on Friday the weekly sabbath, and then went to see him Saturday. This is another clue - Mary and herbs.

The last supper occurred Tuesday afternoon. There is only 1 last supper in the bible. It is in John. Matthew and Mark are not the last supper. Read John 13:2 (supper being ended). At the asat supper there was NO WINE in the cup. It was not Passover and even if it was Jesus did not do SEDERS as this is Jewish custom - not Torah. There was no unleavened bread eaten at the last supper. The Greek word for the bread he broke is "Artos" bread in Greek means raised bread. This thing called Communion is a druidic Pagan custom not meant to be done by a follower of God.

Anyway........

 

[Redemptionsong]

Adstar,
The wording of scripture is very specific, and does need some careful thought. It is right that we sort out the meaning of the LAW (Torah) before looking at its application and fulfilment in the New Testament.

Passover spans TWO Jewish days - 14 Nisan and 15 Nisan. The 14 Nisan is the SACRIFICE (in the afternoon), and the 15 Nisan is the MEAL (in the evening).
This is now something I am quite convinced about. It allows us to include all the scriptural passages without difficulty.

The 15 Nisan is the FIRST DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD. There are SEVEN days of eating unleavened bread.

The 16 Nisan must have been the FIRST day of gathering the new barley harvest (firstfruits) because 'the manna ceased' on that day. This seems to be well supported by the passage in Joshua 5:10 -12.

Then it would have been on the evening of 17 Nisan that the priestly wave, and burnt offering, was made. This must have been the night of the RESURRECTION.

The problem is now the OVERLAYING of this structure onto the pagan week.

If we start with 14 Nisan on the Wednesday, then Sunday morning would be the time that the women find the empty tomb.

 

[Andywelikandy]

Here we go then...
If one is to follow Christian TRADITION then there is clearly a contradiction. It is quite impossible to reconcile the idea of a crucifixion taking place on Friday, with an empty tomb on the Sunday. This would give no more than two nights in the tomb.

We are left with the problem that either the crucifixion did not take place on the Friday, or the women did not return on the Sunday morning.

The very same Jesus who mentioned the story of Jonah being 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale said also that He will rise from death on the 3rd day. Was Jesus mistaken about the period of time He was going to be entombed? No way! What we need to understand is that a part of a day or night equals a whole day or night. If my friend said to me that he will return from his trip in three days time, I should not be surprised if he returned at any time after two full days. That's how we should look at the words of Jesus Christ about His resurrection from death.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Like you Andywelikandy, I believe part of a day was counted as a day. This does not, however, solve all the difficulties associated with Jesus' fulfilment of the law.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I realise now that Thursday cannot ever be the Passover because that would push the day of gathering the firstfruits to the weekly sabbath, when work was an impossibility. So 14 Nisan must have been on a Wednesday.

 

[Enki2]

You are incorrect.The Sabbath began on Friday at 6pm.That is why Jesus had to be rushed into the tomb.No work could be done during the Sabbath.Not even preparing bodies to be buried.Once they got him in and it was done ,it then became the Sabbath at 6pm.So, from 6pm Friday until 6pm Saturday, was the Sabbath.It ended at 6pm Saturday,which would technically make it sunday now,according to Jewish time standards.After 6pm on Saturday is when the Pharisees obtained a guard from pilate to make sure no one would steal the body of Jesus.So in between the time from 6pm until around 6am was when Jesus was resurrected.It did not turn monday until 6 hours later,which would be 6pm.This can be verified by reading the scriptures.It says once the Sabbath was over, and the first light came, that's when the two Mary's went to the tomb to find the body missing.This was sunday morning come first light.From the time of Jesus being put into the tomb on Friday at around 6pm until Sunday morning at around 6am is only around 36 hours.It is 3 days according to Jewish time standards but technically only around 36 physical hours.

Here is the passage that proves without a doubt it was sunday morning at first light.

Matthew 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

It says "After the Sabbath.." --The Sabbath is on saturday.

"at dawn" means first light,in the early morning.

"on the first day of the week" means Sunday.

 

[Enki2]

It is the same with Jonah and the three days and three nights.They are not literal.It refers to portions of a day.Once you understand how the Ancient Jews used their days and nights, it becomes easier to understand fully.Here is something to help you understand.

There are times when the Hebrews used ‘day and night’ to mean only a portion of a solar day of 24 hours. For example, 1 Kings 12:5, 12 tells of Rehoboam’s asking Jeroboam and the Israelites to “go away for three days” and then return to him. That he did not mean three full 24-hour days but, rather, a portion of each of three days is seen by the fact that the people came back to him “on the third day.” At Matthew 12:40 the same meaning is given to the “three days and three nights” of Jesus’ stay in Sheol. As the record shows, he was raised to life on “the third day.” The Jewish priests clearly understood this to be the meaning of Jesus’ words, since, in their effort to block his resurrection, they quoted Jesus as saying: “After three days I am to be raised up,” and then they requested Pilate to issue a command for “the grave to be made secure until the third day.”—Mt 27:62-66; 28:1-6; note other examples in Ge 42:17, 18; Es 4:16; 5:1.

Day — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Notice how the Pharisees describe it as three days.

Matthew 27:62-66. 62 The next day, which was after the Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together before Pilate, 63 saying: “Sir, we recall what that impostor said while he was still alive, ‘After three days I am to be raised up.’ 64 Therefore, command that the grave be made secure until the third day, so that his disciples may not come and steal him and say to the people, ‘He was raised up from the dead!’ Then this last deception will be worse than the first.” 65 Pilate said to them: “You may have a guard. Go make it as secure as you know how.” 66 So they went and made the grave secure by sealing the stone and posting a guard.

It is just as described in 1 Kings 12:5 At this he said to them: “Go away for three days; then return to me.” So the people went away.

1 Kings 12:12 Jer·o·bo′am and all the people came to Re·ho·bo′am on the third day, just as the king had said: “Return to me on the third day.”

It is portions of a day,not three literal 24 hour day nights.

 

[Enki2]

What most bible researchers forget is that there were two Holy days that week.So in trying to figure out the dates using the Lunar calender, The Holy Day of the Passover Sabbath was on a Thursday. Jesus was the Sacrificial lamb., trying to match Matt. 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54 and John 19:31 with John 19:14 would show that Jesus (Yeshuah) was crucified on a Wednesday, body rushed to the tomb before 6 PM. for Mary Magdalene was shown to be gathering the spices and aromatic oils on the preparation day Friday for the 2d holy Sabbath,Saturday. At the dawn of the Holy day, Saturday Jesus had arisen. 3 days and 3 nights. 6 PM starts the day, so 6 PM Wednesday to 6 PM Thursday, day one; 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday, day 2. ^ PM Friday to 6 PM Saturday, Mary's went at the dawn of the holy day. Passover preparation is called by Paraskeue;;, the regular holy day Saturday preparation day Friday is Pro-Sabbaaton.

 

[Enki2]

Bible student: 6 PM Saturday end of the 3d day begins the start of the first day of the week. DAWN ( beginning) of the day starts at 6 PM, actual day light if the evening of the day. when work was accomplished.

 

[crazyrussian]

Sorry since the change in the format of this forum i have not seen this thread.

I believe passover started on Tuesday sunset and ended on Wednesday sunset. So Tuesday 6.pm to Wednesday 6 pm was the passover day.

"""""Also, if you read Joshua 5:10 -12, it says that they celebrated the passover (sacrifice) on 14 Nisan 'at even'. This means the feast was on the 15 Nisan.""""

No i believe the Bible is the inspired word of God if the passover meal had happened on the evening of Nisan 15th then the Bible would have said it happened on the 15th of Nisan. But it said on the evening of the 14th of Nisan so to me it happened on the evening of the 14th of Nisan and that was the start of the 14th of Nisan..

Jesus and his disciples did have their last supper on 14 Nissan at evening. Jesus would have been Crucified at the appointed time on 14 Nissan day time period in place of the lamb for the Passover meal. One of the things in bible cannon which causes confusion about the time line of Death for Jesus, is the False testimony found in more than one bible gospel.

Time specific prophecies concerning the Death and resurrection all point to a single day in earth History. According to Time specific Prophecy, Messiah the prince was cut off in the middle of the week.

The most fascinating discovery I have made in my research, is that the time line presented in this chart is consistent with the time line of the original Passover lamb!