Thoughts on Reverend Scott's Final Speech in The Poseidon Adventure

[Stevicus]

As I was reading another thread about faith, I was reminded of the final act of the movie The Poseidon Adventure (1972).

Reverend Scott (played by the brilliant Gene Hackman) was a renegade preacher who had been punished by his church for his rebellious attitude and sent to some remote African village. The ship he was traveling on met with disaster and capsized, and most of the movie has Reverend Scott leading a small group of passengers in the hope of being rescued. After a few in the group are killed along the way, Reverend Scott finally blows up and addresses God directly:

"What more do you want of us? We've come all this way, no thanks to you. We did on our own no help from you. We didn't ask you to fight for us but damn it, don't fight against us! Leave us alone! How many more sacrifices? How much more blood? How many more lives? Belle wasn't enough. Acres wasn't. Now this girl! You want another life? Then take me!"

Of course, Reverend Scott is a Christian preacher, but the ship itself was named after a Greek god, as the Captain describes: "The Greek God Poseidon. God of storms, tempests, earthquakes and other miscellaneous natural disasters. Quite an ill-tempered fellow."

I suppose one interpretation could be that, at least within the context of the story, Poseidon might actually be the real "god" here, not Jehovah. The ship was on its last voyage, about to be demolished by a wrecking crew waiting in Athens. The disaster could have been caused by Poseidon, who might have thought, "They're not wrecking that ship. I'm wrecking that ship. It's named after me, so it's mine." For a god described as an "ill-tempered fellow," it sounds almost plausible. It would actually be relatively easy to have faith in a god like Poseidon, since his description fits in with observable phenomena in known reality.

But Reverend Scott wasn't addressing Poseidon in his speech. He was addressing the God of the Bible, who is purportedly all about "love" and "compassion." But Scott wasn't even asking for love or compassion. All he wanted was for God to stop actively fighting against them. He wanted God to leave people alone. He didn't think people should be on their knees praying when action was required. "You could wear off your knees praying to God for heat in February. And icicles would grow from your upraised palms. If you're freezing, you burn the furniture. . .but you get off your knees."

And when Reverend Scott finally resorted to prayer at the end, he wasn't on his knees. He was on his feet, shaking his fist at God in anger and defiance.

I think I can see a lot of myself in Reverend Scott. If such a preacher actually existed in any church somewhere, I would attend his sermons. He believed that the church was for "more than just prayer."

So, my questions to the group here, both non-believers and believers in any religion:

- What are your general thoughts on Reverend Scott?
- In the context of the story, do you think that Reverend Scott would go to hell for his outright defiance?
- Is it possible that Poseidon actually existed and caused the disaster?
- What would you think of a church that punishes a preacher for his unorthodox sermons or the fact that he's rebellious, angry, defiant, and critical?
- How do you think God would answer Reverend Scott's tirade?

This, to me, points up a major failure of religion. Most religions seem to want people to focus on the supernatural, through prayer, meditation, etc., with the idea that somehow it would give people a connection to a higher power outside of this reality. Kind of like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand. Religion keeps enjoining people to become believers and have faith. But if they really are God's representatives on Earth, then why aren't they just as critical, angry, and rebellious as Reverend Scott?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I barely remember the movie.

He doesn't deserve hell for his valid criticism, regardless of what the "BibleGod" would do.

In ancient times, gods were more local/regional affairs. Yah/Yahweh as God of the Sea in pre-Jewish cultures and was a violent jerk. Poseidon is possible, but unnecessary.

I would consider it only is interested in bootlicking. That's not a healthy relationship.

I don't know. I don't remember the ending.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I haven't seen it. I see Gene Hackman's name and I think "Hoosiers," "Lex Luthor" and "Heist or some other honor-among-thieves film."

From your description it is an anti-establishment film and (like many films) accuses the clergy of being a rats nest. The fist shaken at 'God' in the film is artistically being shaken at the nobility of the church. The film gives a lot of credit to this preacher. He's one of the 'Wilbur Wilforce' variety, which is really a spot of luck for his followers. The plot suggests believers with religiosity do not become preachers, and so this rare gem falls afoul of his church hierarchy.

The film is not aimed at church-goers. It is aimed at the clergy, perhaps an appeal to them. Perhaps its meant as some kind of chicken soup or a heart softener.

 

[Nietzsche]

I haven't seen it. I see Gene Hackman's name and I think "Hoosiers," "Lex Luthor" and "Heist or some other honor-among-thieves film."

From your description it is an anti-establishment film and (like many films) accuses the clergy of being a rats nest. The fist shaken at 'God' in the film is artistically being shaken at the nobility of the church. The film gives a lot of credit to this preacher. He's one of the 'Wilbur Wilforce' variety, which is really a spot of luck for his followers. The plot suggests believers with religiosity do not become preachers, and so this rare gem falls afoul of his church hierarchy.

The film is not aimed at church-goers. It is aimed at the clergy, perhaps an appeal to them. Perhaps its meant as some kind of chicken soup or a heart softener.

Of course, you could make the argument that if God is as powerful as the claims make him seem, then the people who end up in his clergy are his choice, so perhaps they're a more accurate reflection of the big guy than we want to think?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Of course, you could make the argument that if God is as powerful as the claims make him seem, then the people who end up in his clergy are his choice, so perhaps they're a more accurate reflection of the big guy than we want to think?

Truth hurts sometimes, so maybe yes. We might be very funny to God, but if God thinks our suffering is funny, then I say 'Screw you' to God in that case. I take myself very seriously. Everybody is funny to somebody though. Sure its possible but these guys who are self styled representatives who claim to know would only be accidentally correct. They wouldn't actually know what they were talking about. I've seen their books.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't know. I don't remember the ending.

Just like in Titanic, the ship sinks.

 

[Stevicus]

I haven't seen it. I see Gene Hackman's name and I think "Hoosiers," "Lex Luthor" and "Heist or some other honor-among-thieves film."

Hoosiers was a great film. Gene Hackman was one of the greats, but this was actually the first time I ever saw him. (I was 8 years old when this movie came out.)

From your description it is an anti-establishment film and (like many films) accuses the clergy of being a rats nest. The fist shaken at 'God' in the film is artistically being shaken at the nobility of the church. The film gives a lot of credit to this preacher. He's one of the 'Wilbur Wilforce' variety, which is really a spot of luck for his followers. The plot suggests believers with religiosity do not become preachers, and so this rare gem falls afoul of his church hierarchy.

The film is not aimed at church-goers. It is aimed at the clergy, perhaps an appeal to them. Perhaps its meant as some kind of chicken soup or a heart softener.

Well, there were definitely some religious subtexts throughout the movie. But there was another clergyman in the film who was more traditional and establishment-oriented, although he was portrayed in a somewhat sympathetic light.

 

[turbopro]

As a non-believer,

- What are your general thoughts on Reverend Scott?

Not sure. If he's a good man, then good for him. That he follows a church, well, that's his choice.

- In the context of the story, do you think that Reverend Scott would go to hell for his outright defiance?

As a non-believer, hell, the generic Xian hell I take it, is meaningless to me

- Is it possible that Poseidon actually existed and caused the disaster?

I do not know if Poseidon is real. If he was/is, it would be fun to chat with him though

- What would you think of a church that punishes a preacher for his unorthodox sermons or the fact that he's rebellious, angry, defiant, and critical?

I'm not into any kind of church.

- How do you think God would answer Reverend Scott's tirade?

I believe you refer to the god of the bible, right.

See Job 38 (Bible Gateway, NSRV)

“Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
Gird up your loins like a man,
I will question you, and you shall declare to me."

 

[Indian Iconoclast]

"What more do you want of us? We've come all this way, no thanks to you. We did on our own no help from you. We didn't ask you to fight for us but damn it, don't fight against us! Leave us alone! How many more sacrifices? How much more blood? How many more lives? Belle wasn't enough. Acres wasn't. Now this girl! You want another life? Then take me!" [/I]UNQUOTE]

 

[Samantha Rinne]

This, to me, points up a major failure of religion. Most religions seem to want people to focus on the supernatural, through prayer, meditation, etc., with the idea that somehow it would give people a connection to a higher power outside of this reality. Kind of like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand. Religion keeps enjoining people to become believers and have faith. But if they really are God's representatives on Earth, then why aren't they just as critical, angry, and rebellious as Reverend Scott?

This is a late response, but I found it through a search engine on Poseidon Adventure. It was either post here, or make an entirely new thread.

Honestly, I'm afraid many people look at Reverend Scott, and say:
"See? Look at those Christians! See how they are!" See what now?

Let's (pun intended) flip that assumption upside down.

This is actually a Christian allegory.

Yes, the boat is named the Poseidon, yes the priest is a grumpy jerk that seems to represent the worst of Christianity, and yes a ship sank.

But Rev Scott is basically the exact sort of priest you would want in a zombie apocalypse. And the boat as Poseidon's wreck is precisely a mirror of the end of pagan revelry (see also, the Fall of Rome) that accompanies most of the passengers. And the passengers themselves are rescued by airplane in a way very similar to being transported to Heaven, through an act of sacrifice.

But that's not all. Let's compare Reverend Scott to Jesus.

Rev Scott

• Was not popular with the established church
• Was known to be grumpy and rebellious
• Has a last "Leave me alone, God" moment
• A pragmatic religious leader not a high ideals preacher
• Was known to have religiously unpopular sermons that church members hated
• Dies hanging from a valve trying to save everyone
• Introduced by a priest named John

Jesus

• Was not popular with the established temple
• Grumpy and rebellious, check. In fact, he invented table flipping
• "If this cup could pass me" (yes, this is him literally saying "I dun wanna be crucified")
• Jesus's ministry was mostly based on feeding crowds and healing people
• One of his sermons is so bad that he is driven to the edge of a cliff, before he sneaks away
• Dies hanging from a cross
• Introduced by John the baptist

Sunstone likes music videos, so....

Christians aren't intended as perfect virtuous little angels. We're meant to be cussing, drinking, gluttonous humans who nevertheless try to help out the rest of them.

 

[Stevicus]

This is a late response, but I found it through a search engine on Poseidon Adventure. It was either post here, or make an entirely new thread.

Honestly, I'm afraid many people look at Reverend Scott, and say:
"See? Look at those Christians! See how they are!" See what now?

Let's (pun intended) flip that assumption upside down.

This is actually a Christian allegory.

Yes, the boat is named the Poseidon, yes the priest is a grumpy jerk that seems to represent the worst of Christianity, and yes a ship sank.

But Rev Scott is basically the exact sort of priest you would want in a zombie apocalypse. And the boat as Poseidon's wreck is precisely a mirror of the end of pagan revelry (see also, the Fall of Rome) that accompanies most of the passengers. And the passengers themselves are rescued by airplane in a way very similar to being transported to Heaven, through an act of sacrifice.

But that's not all. Let's compare Reverend Scott to Jesus.

Rev Scott

• Was not popular with the established church
• Was known to be grumpy and rebellious
• Has a last "Leave me alone, God" moment
• A pragmatic religious leader not a high ideals preacher
• Was known to have religiously unpopular sermons that church members hated
• Dies hanging from a valve trying to save everyone
• Introduced by a priest named John

Jesus

• Was not popular with the established temple
• Grumpy and rebellious, check. In fact, he invented table flipping
• "If this cup could pass me" (yes, this is him literally saying "I dun wanna be crucified")
• Jesus's ministry was mostly based on feeding crowds and healing people
• One of his sermons is so bad that he is driven to the edge of a cliff, before he sneaks away
• Dies hanging from a cross
• Introduced by John the baptist

Sunstone likes music videos, so....

Christians aren't intended as perfect virtuous little angels. We're meant to be cussing, drinking, gluttonous humans who nevertheless try to help out the rest of them.

You raise some interesting points, and thanks; I had forgotten about this thread.

Interesting comparison between John the Baptist and the older priest from the movie. When he was talking to Reverend Scott, he knew they were going to die if they stayed, yet he couldn't leave the people who chose to stay. He also was critical of his sermon in that he felt that Scott "spoke only for the strong."

Although there were still those who were originally part of the group led by Reverend Scott, yet still ended up dying anyway - which was the reason for his whole tirade at the end directed at God.