there is NO evidence AGAINST Evolution...

[Ouroboros]

I will come out a little here. With updated details
The reason I 'agnosticised' myself was due to the fact that I wanted to have a proper discussion with someone without being shunned.
Anyways, as a mathematician and believer, I can know that Evolution is absolutely improbable and as a reasonable person, absolutely presently unobservable!

Amazing...

My basis for Evolutionary denial doesn't, however, come from the improbability of the theory (because improbability != impossibility), it, however, comes from the beginning of everything. And yes, this does disprove Evolution..

No, it doesn't. If you think it does, that shows that you have no clue what biological evolution stands for.

Where did matter come from in the beginning? Out of nothing? I know you guys are smarter than this.. Right??

Has nothing to do with biological evolution.

Do you have to know where the nail comes from and where it was produced for you to hammer it into a plank of wood? If you do, then you would be right, but so it happens, as a fact you don't. Biological evolution is about how to hammer the nail. Astronomy and physics is about the origin of matter (the nail's origin). Chemistry is about how physical elements react to each other. Very different sciences that sometimes overlap, but most of the time not necessarily dependent on each other.

The only other possibility is that of an Divine Creator. One who was there from the eternal beginning.

Eternal beginning is like saying "the number where negative infinity starts."

How's your math?

The reason this disproves Evolution is because if people can realise that atheists and ultimately evolutionists will NEVER be able to account for an absolute beginning, then we can look to God who created beings NOT from evolution! This first step is ignored by atheists. AND WHY? Becauses they don't know.

No, because it is irrelevant, and you know it is.

But that's the problem- atheists discard any idea of a Creator and therefore must create a naturalist agenda.

I'm not quite an atheist, and I'm an evolutionist. There are several religious, theists, and other believers on this site who are not atheists, and they do believe in evolution. I guess your little math proof didn't add up.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Because the Bible isn't wrong. Nothing is scientifically wrong with the Bible.

How quaint.

Lets see: There is a "firmament above the heavens", Plants lived through absolute 0 temperatures and without light before God got around to creating the sun, we had light before a light source, "Bats" are listed under "Fowl" (are bats, birds?), Flat earth, Geoncyntricity, Curing leprosy by sacrificing a couple birds and smearing the blood around, Mountains have roots, The Earth is supported by pillars .....

No, nothing scientifically inaccurate about the bible.

Not at all.

:thud:

 

[Parsimony]

The reason this disproves Evolution is because if people can realise that atheists and ultimately evolutionists will NEVER be able to account for an absolute beginning, then we can look to God who created beings NOT from evolution!

You've set up a false dichotomy: Either everything is naturalistic and evolution created humans or God created all living things and did so without evolution. There are more possibilities than that. I am an evolutionist but I believe in God. I believe that the evidence is abundantly in favor of evolutionary theory and as such God must have used it to create us.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Evolution is observable today; the problem is, most people don't see it because they refuse to accept that adaption and "micro evolution IS evolution; and that the only difference between Micro and Macro is time scale.

I'm sorry- I should have clarified. When most people talk about Evolution they generally mean macro-evolution. I do understand the difference between both!

Micro-Evolution or Adaptation is a change that happens within a species and happens due to the needs of the organism. This was best shown through Darwin's Finches. Also, what usually happens in micro-evolution is that, let's take for example a beak, ultimately grows/shrinks back to original size. It wouldn't drop off. Or, more realistically, wouldn't start to develop into something else. And if it did drop off, or, start to develop into something else, this would be a hinderance and the organism would die off, end of story.

Macro-Evolution talks about continuing the last paragraph that I wrote. It says that the beak could develop into something else. It implies that the organism could live with this unnecessary hinderance. Nature works for the present. It can't think. It doesn't have plans for the future no matter what science you deal with.

Apologist hype. Evolution is the study of the diversity of life. The study of Evolution begins with the advent of life.

And "evolution" is a broad term.
I believe in micro-evolution, or adapting.

The origin of matter is unimportant in the study of the diversity of matter.

I agree with your "accuracy of math" example. But this topic deals with something else! It is important that one understands where matter comes from before doing or examining evolution or diversity of matter. If one doesn't know where matter comes from and starts to study evolution, then you have missed the first critical step! And God thought about this first step and knew and planned it so that nothing apart from the Bible (and it's derogatives) could explain the origin of anything!

No. Science has far to go in determining where everything came from.

It does have far to go! And I look forward to the future theory that will come out of this.

And, we do not know that scientists will "never be able to account for an absolute beginning"; it wasn't that long ago when others cried that we will never be able to fly.

Scientists will not be able to KNOW or account for an absolute beginning. Sure, a theory will most likely come of it, but there can be no scientific proof for whatever it may be. Even if I were an Evolutionist (and I've not always been a believer), I would know that this is a lost cause unfortunately.
To prove the origin of matter as a person who does not believe there is no Creator is impossible. Because the question of "and where did THAT come from?" will always be asked.

those steps (the advent of life and the advent of matter) are different scientific disciplines.

Those steps are critical and familiar and important, depending on who you are, to one another..

Scientist != Atheist

+10 points!

Many Christians accept the Theory of Evolution.

...is a contradictory statement. You are not a Christian if you believe in the Theory of Evolution because you are disagreeing with God's Word that He created things rapidly, not over millions and billions of years.
What these "Christians" have done is create their own cult, their own sect.
Please don't try educate me on the Bible..

 

[ScuzManiac]

Scientists will not be able to KNOW or account for an absolute beginning. Sure, a theory will most likely come of it, but there can be no scientific proof for whatever it may be. Even if I were an Evolutionist (and I've not always been a believer), I would know that this is a lost cause unfortunately.
To prove the origin of matter as a person who does not believe there is no Creator is impossible. Because the question of "and where did THAT come from?" will always be asked.

Or maybe that just means our brains aren't capable of understanding how something could come from nothing....yet. Sounds like a possibility to me. What do you think?

And that isn't a stab at you or anything. That statement I made could work in favor of God or lack thereof.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Or maybe that just means our brains aren't capable of understanding how something could come from nothing....yet. Sounds like a possibility to me. What do you think?

Of course they aren't! Humans have limited capacity and will always have limited knowledge- not knowing the bigger picture.
But God has unlimited capacity. He has to to have been able to create something out of nothing.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Also, I just want to clarify. I know that my "math doesn't add up" to most of you. Dealing with God is dealing with the supernatural. Something that isn't ordinary. He isn't bound by the common laws and rules He has set up!

 

[ScuzManiac]

Of course they aren't! Humans have limited capacity and will always have limited knowledge- not knowing the bigger picture.
But God has unlimited capacity. He has to to have been able to create something out of nothing.

So, if God has to have been able to create something out of nothing...

Isn't it possible that this could have happened without God?

There are a LOT of things that happen that cannot be explained...

But don't need a God to happen.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

You are a victim of misconceptions and lies about ToE. Here is a great source for you to educate yourself about most of your misconceptions; then maybe we can talk.

Misconceptions about evolution

My bet is, you won't even look at it, because it represents too much of a challenge to your concept of reality. Challenging one's concept of reality lies within the purview of the courageous.

You are not a Christian if you believe in the Theory of Evolution because you are disagreeing with God's Word that He created things rapidly, not over millions and billions of years.
What these "Christians" have done is create their own cult, their own sect.
Please don't try educate me on the Bible..

That's what Ray Comfort would have you believe, but Ray Comfort is not the final authority.

You asked me to not educate you on the Bible, but I feel I must.

The Bible is replete with warnings about standing in judgment against others. You have no authority to determine who is written in the "book of life". The last I read, John 3:16-17 said nothing about believing in Genesis 1 to be saved. Neither belief nor non-belief in Creationism or Evolution has anything whatsoever to do with your eternal salvation.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Here are a couple exerpts from the ariticle listed above that addresses some of your ... misconceptions ... about the theory you are trying to attack.

• MISCONCEPTION: Evolution is a theory about the origin of life.
  CORRECTION: Evolutionary theory does encompass ideas and evidence regarding life's origins (e.g., whether or not it happened near a deep-sea vent, which organic molecules came first, etc.), but this is not the central focus of evolutionary theory. Most of evolutionary biology deals with how life changed after its origin. Regardless of how life started, afterwards it branched and diversified, and most studies of evolution are focused on those processes.
• MISCONCEPTION: Evolutionary theory implies that life evolved (and continues to evolve) randomly, or by chance.
  CORRECTION: Chance and randomness do factor into evolution and the history of life in many different ways; however, some important mechanisms of evolution are non-random and these make the overall process non-random. For example, consider the process of natural selection, which results in adaptations — features of organisms that appear to suit the environment in which the organisms live (e.g., the fit between a flower and its pollinator, the coordinated response of the immune system to pathogens, and the ability of bats to echolocate). Such amazing adaptations clearly did not come about "by chance." They evolved via a combination of random and non-random processes. The process of mutation, which generates genetic variation, is random, but selection is non-random. Selection favored variants that were better able to survive and reproduce (e.g., to be pollinated, to fend off pathogens, or to navigate in the dark). Over many generations of random mutation and non-random selection, complex adaptations evolved. To say that evolution happens "by chance" ignores half of the picture. To learn more about the process of natural selection, visit our article on this topic. To learn more about random mutation, visit our article on DNA and mutations.

 

[Thief]

I always thought random events were part of the scheme for evolution.

How else to account for events that kill large numbers and the survivors must be able to continue?

(such as large meteor strikes that purge anything over fifty pounds of weight...so I've heard)

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Of course "chance" and "randomness" plays a role. Most people are uncomfortable with this idea -- that things happen which are completely out of control and random.

Regardless of the "chance" of a meteor striking the earth, the biological and chemical processes of ToE are not "merely random" nor "just chance"; but natural and normal chemical processes, following the laws of biology, chemistry and genetics.

 

[Parsimony]

...is a contradictory statement. You are not a Christian if you believe in the Theory of Evolution because you are disagreeing with God's Word that He created things rapidly, not over millions and billions of years.
What these "Christians" have done is create their own cult, their own sect.
Please don't try educate me on the Bible..

Even if that was true (and it isn't), you'd still have deists to consider. They believe in a god (thus explaining the origin of the Universe in the same way as you have proposed) but not in the Bible. They have no dogma that keeps from from accepting scientific knowledge.

 

[outhouse]

But God has unlimited capacity. He has to to have been able to create something out of nothing.

So does imagination :biglaugh:

 

[outhouse]

But don't need a God to happen.

Its funny, many civilizations got along quite well without the Jewish god that evolved into the christian god that evolved into the muslims god.

because the Jeiwsh god evolved from 2 Canaanite gods, that evolved from Mesopotamian deities


If the truth is ever required.

 

[Thief]

It's funny how a few lean to a history book and then discount the Almighty.

I say...theology is greater than history.
God cannot be made to disappear....no matter what Man writes down.

 

[McBell]

It's funny how a few lean to a history book and then discount the Almighty.

Not as funny as those who discard everything for their wishful thinking.

I say...theology is greater than history.

And?

God cannot be made to disappear....no matter what Man writes down.

I agree.
Mans attachment to god is something that is stronger than truth.
Some people even throw out everything else in order to claim god.

One wonders if their god exists, if that is what their god honestly wants.

 

[Thief]

Not as funny as those who discard everything for their wishful thinking.


And?


I agree.
Mans attachment to god is something that is stronger than truth.
Some people even throw out everything else in order to claim god.

One wonders if their god exists, if that is what their god honestly wants.

We'll see honestly fair and true.....yes we will.

 

[McBell]

We'll see honestly fair and true.....yes we will.

Perhaps.
Just not from you.

 

[outhouse]

Perhaps.
Just not from you.

Agreed, it wont happen.