The Year of the Babylonian Exile of the Jews

[David Davidovich]

I have a question for Jews: What year do the Jews believe that the Babylonian Exile of the Jews took place? Some believe it was in 587/586 BCE and other believe it was in 608/607 BCE, therefore when was it?

Many scholars cite 597 BCE as the date of the first deportation, for in that year King Jehoiachin was deposed and apparently sent into exile with his family, his court, and thousands of workers. Others say the first deportation followed the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadrezzar in 586; if so, the Jews were held in Babylonian captivity for 48 years. Among those who accept a tradition (Jeremiah 29:10) that the exile lasted 70 years, some choose the dates 608 to 538, others 586 to about 516 (the year when the rebuilt Temple was dedicated in Jerusalem).

click here: Babylonian Captivity | Definition, History, & Significance | Britannica

Although, I may already have my answer.

Newswise — Researchers digging at UNC Charlotte’s ongoing archaeological excavation on Mount Zion in Jerusalem have announced a second significant discovery from the 2019 season–clear evidence of the Babylonian conquest of the city from 587/586 BCE.

. . .

Every year religious Jews in Jerusalem and across the world pray and fast in remembrance of the destruction of the Jewish Temple to God in Jerusalem, first by the Babylonians in 587/586 BCE, resulting in the exile of the inhabitants of the city to Babylon, and yet again in 70 CE at the hands of the Roman legions led by Titus. To remember the devastating destruction of the Temple, Jews gather in synagogues around the world and at the Western Wall plaza in Jerusalem, to pray and mourn on Tisha B’ Av (the ninth day in the Hebrew month of Av) according to the Jewish calendar, which falls this year on Aug. 11.

click here: Evidence of the 587/586 BCE Babylonian Conquest of Jerusalem Found in Mount Zion Excavation (newswise.com)

 

[Harel13]

As far as I know, the disputed dates aren't 587-6 and 609-8 BCE but rather 587-6 which is the secular calculation for the year that the exile began, and 421-0 which is based on the traditional Jewish calculation for the year that the exile began.

The former calculation is a little complicated. It's based mostly on various astronomical calculations used to determine what secular year matches up with the Assyrian calendar. From there scholars moved on to comparing Babylonian, Egyptian and Greek calendars.

The latter calculation is simply based on a Mishnaic-era text called Seder Olam (also known as Seder Olam Rabbah) which calculates pretty much every significant event that occurred in Jewish history until the end of the Bar Kochva Revolt. Parts of these calculations also appear in other mishnaic and Talmudic texts. Since Seder Olam is attributed to the sage Rabbi Yosi ben Chalafta, it may be assumed that all sources shared the same traditions.

Neither of the calculations are not without flaws. The "scientific calculation" is rooted on calculating the year a solar eclipse occurred in Assyria, per the Assyrian Eponym List, which names and lists the Assyrian years. Then, every other date is counted back or forth. The calculations of the solar eclipse are based on various astronomical diaries discovered in archeological digs around the Middle East. The question is: The ancients knew a lot of things, even things we still don't know today. But did they get everything right? Hard to know. I recently heard that a few astronomical diaries had been found to show different dates.

On the other hand, the Seder Olam calculations are also somewhat flawed. For example, it uses the verse that states that King Shaul ruled for only two years as evidence that he did indeed only rule two years, even though it is very difficult to read two years into the Tanachic text. After all, when Shaul is crowned, he is described as a young man. By the time he dies, his son Ish Boshet is already middle-aged and he has a grandson, Mefiboshet! Then, of course, there's the matter of Seder Olam being based on manuscripts, which are a tricky business. You never really know when a scribe might have decided to alter the text just so that it would make sense to him (figuring out the author or a prior scribe made a mistake).

 

[David Davidovich]

As far as I know, the disputed dates aren't 587-6 and 609-8 BCE but rather 587-6 which is the secular calculation for the year that the exile began, and 421-0 which is based on the traditional Jewish calculation for the year that the exile began.

Thanks for that. Also, I was going to ask you what year it was according to the Jewish calendar, but it looks like you answered that already. But are far as the disputed dates are concerned, I know that there are some Christian (scholars?) and some Christians groups, primarily Jehovah's Witnesses, who insist upon the year 607 as the year of the Jewish Babylonian exile. However, I did not want to post this in the debate forum because I've seen too many long debates and looked through too many long internet articles that discuss and debate this. However, this is the first time that I thought about what the Jewish point of view was about this.

The former calculation is a little complicated. It's based mostly on various astronomical calculations used to determine what secular year matches up with the Assyrian calendar. From there scholars moved on to comparing Babylonian, Egyptian and Greek calendars.

The latter calculation is simply based on a Mishnaic-era text called Seder Olam (also known as Seder Olam Rabbah) which calculates pretty much every significant event that occurred in Jewish history until the end of the Bar Kochva Revolt. Parts of these calculations also appear in other mishnaic and Talmudic texts. Since Seder Olam is attributed to the sage Rabbi Yosi ben Chalafta, it may be assumed that all sources shared the same traditions.

Neither of the calculations are not without flaws. The "scientific calculation" is rooted on calculating the year a solar eclipse occurred in Assyria, per the Assyrian Eponym List, which names and lists the Assyrian years. Then, every other date is counted back or forth. The calculations of the solar eclipse are based on various astronomical diaries discovered in archeological digs around the Middle East. The question is: The ancients knew a lot of things, even things we still don't know today. But did they get everything right? Hard to know. I recently heard that a few astronomical diaries had been found to show different dates.

On the other hand, the Seder Olam calculations are also somewhat flawed. For example, it uses the verse that states that King Shaul ruled for only two years as evidence that he did indeed only rule two years, even though it is very difficult to read two years into the Tanachic text. After all, when Shaul is crowned, he is described as a young man. By the time he dies, his son Ish Boshet is already middle-aged and he has a grandson, Mefiboshet! Then, of course, there's the matter of Seder Olam being based on manuscripts, which are a tricky business. You never really know when a scribe might have decided to alter the text just so that it would make sense to him (figuring out the author or a prior scribe made a mistake).

Well, I wonder what the actual truth is about this matter. Also, the arguments are very long and complicated, however, I would like to post one of the easier explanations for the year 607 for the purpose of this discussion:

I will present just one line of evidence external to the Bible that shows that the date for the destruction of Jerusalem to be 607 BCE and that is the evidence of astronomical tablets.

Experts agree that the Babylonians had developed extensive charts and schemes to predict when eclipses would most likely occur. They made cuneiform tablets that contain descriptions of the positions of the sun, moon, planets, and stars, coupled with such historical information as the regnal year of a particular king.

Both 2 Kings 25:8 and Jeremiah 52:12 establish the destruction of Jerusalem as occurring in the “19th year of King Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon”. And Jeremiah 32:1 as the 18th year. The difference is accounted for by the fact that some considered only the full or regnal years of a king and some counted from a king’s accession year.

So in what year was his 18th/19th year? If we establish when his 37th year was then all we have to do is count back to arrive at this year.

Consider the example of one of these astronomical tablets (named VAT4956). The opening line of this tablet reads: “Year 37 of Nebukadnezar, king of Babylon.” If 588 BCE. marked the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar, then his 19th year would be 607 BCE. (588+19=607)

On that astronomical tablet mentioned, we read that the moon was in a certain position on the “night of the 9th [of Nisanu].” The lunar position described finds an exact match on Nisanu 9 of 588 BCE.

In addition to this eclipse, there are 13 sets of lunar observations on the tablet. Researchers have carefully analyzed these 13 sets of lunar positions. What did their analysis reveal? That all 13 sets match calculated positions for the year 588/587 BCE.

Much of the astronomical data on tablets fits the year 588 BCE. as the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar II. This, therefore, supports the date of 607 BCE. for Jerusalem’s destruction - just as the Bible indicates.

click here: When was Jerusalem destroyed in 607 or 587? - Quora

 

[Harel13]

Well, I wonder what the actual truth is about this matter. Also, the arguments are very long and complicated, however, I would like to post one of the easier explanations for the year 607 for the purpose of this discussion:

I do not know much about astronomical calculations, so I will take a pass on wading into that mess. However, that theory on 607 being the year of the exile is significantly different from the debate I brought up in my previous post. The debate I brought up is about the entire chronology. What you brought is a POV that already accepts the secular dating system but simply disagrees on the exact year a certain event occurred.

 

[David Davidovich]

I do not know much about astronomical calculations, so I will take a pass on wading into that mess.

I don't blame you because some of those debates and discussions can make your head hurt.

However, that theory on 607 being the year of the exile is significantly different from the debate I brought up in my previous post. The debate I brought up is about the entire chronology. What you brought is a POV that already accepts the secular dating system but simply disagrees on the exact year a certain event occurred.

Okay, but do you know what verses of Jeremiah that Daniel 9:2 is referring to?

2In the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, contemplated the calculations, the number of the years that the word of the Lord had come to Jeremiah the prophet, since the destruction of Jerusalem seventy years.

click here: Daniel - Chapter 9 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible (chabad.org)

Because from what I looked up, Daniel 9:2 is supposed to be referring to 'Jeremiah 25:12' - New American Standard Version - StudyLight.org and 'Jeremiah 29:10' - New American Standard Version - StudyLight.org. (Also, see Daniel 9:2 - Verse-by-Verse Bible Commentary - StudyLight.org.)

However, from a short and not too complicated article that I found, the problem with the proponents of the year 607 BCE is that they believe that Daniel is referring to Jeremiah 25:11:

70 Years of Desolation vs. 70 Years of “Serving under the king of Babylon

And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”​

Jeremiah 25:11 – New World Translation

in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of years mentioned in the word of Jehovah to Jeremiah the prophet to fulfill the desolation of Jerusalem, namely, 70 years.

Daniel 9:2 New World Translation

Both these scriptures talk about a prophecy of 70 years. But do you see the difference? The one from Jeremiah talks about serving the king of Babylon for 70 years, where the verse in Daniel talks about the desolation of Jerusalem for 70 years. We must be careful not to assume the start and end date of these two events are the same.

click here: Was Jerusalem Destroyed in 607BC, or 586BC? [and the 70 Years explained] – JW Answers

Therefore, do you or anyone else who is Jewish, have an opinion or viewpoint on Daniel 9:2 vs. Jeremiah 25:11 (i.e. the desolation of Jerusalem for 70 years vs the nations serving the King of Babylon for 70 years)?

 

[David Davidovich]

I'm curious. Does anyone who is NOT Jewish, have an opinion or viewpoint on Daniel 9:2 vs. Jeremiah 25:11 (i.e. the desolation of Jerusalem for 70 years vs the nations serving the King of Babylon for 70 years) as mentioned in my post #5?

 

[Harel13]

Okay, but do you know what verses of Jeremiah that Daniel 9:2 is referring to?

Daniel is referring to a number of verses:

Jeremiah 25:11-12
Jeremiah 29:10

This same prophecy is also referenced in Ezra 1:1 and Chronicles 2:36:21-22.

 

[David Davidovich]

Daniel is referring to a number of verses:

Jeremiah 25:11-12
Jeremiah 29:10

This same prophecy is also referenced in Ezra 1:1 and Chronicles 2:36:21-22.

But isn't Daniel 9:2 referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, and aren't the verse in Jeremiah 25:11-12 referring to:

"those nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years" (i.e. Gentile nations)?

And in contrast to that, isn't Jeremiah 29:10 referring to

"For thus said the LORD: When Babylon’s seventy years are over, I will take note of you, and I will fulfill to you My promise of favor—to bring you back to this place"

where the you is referring to the Jews and the bringing you back to this place is referring to Jerusalem?

 

[Harel13]

But isn't Daniel 9:2 referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, and aren't the verse in Jeremiah 25:11-12 referring to:

"those nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years" (i.e. Gentile nations)?

And in contrast to that, isn't Jeremiah 29:10 referring to

"For thus said the LORD: When Babylon’s seventy years are over, I will take note of you, and I will fulfill to you My promise of favor—to bring you back to this place"

where the you is referring to the Jews and the bringing you back to this place is referring to Jerusalem?

Yes, that is correct. Nonetheless, Daniel is referring to both sets of verses. He originally thought that he was supposed to count according to the first two verses (25:11-12), but at the time described in Daniel 9:2, he came to realize that he had been mistaken and should have counted from Jeremiah 29:10. See Rashi here.

 

[David Davidovich]

Yes, that is correct. Nonetheless, Daniel is referring to both sets of verses. He originally thought that he was supposed to count according to the first two verses (25:11-12), but at the time described in Daniel 9:2, he came to realize that he had been mistaken and should have counted from Jeremiah 29:10. See Rashi here.

I'll have to read the commentary some other time because I can't really absorb it right now. However, I did want to ask you a quick question about that. And I don't mean to nitpick, but how could Daniel had been mistaken if he was writing under the influence of Hashem?

 

[Harel13]

I'll have to read the commentary some other time because I can't really absorb it right now. However, I did want to ask you a quick question about that. And I don't mean to nitpick, but how could Daniel had been mistaken if he was writing under the influence of Hashem?

Let me clarify. Daniel 9:2 comes after Daniel has realized that his original calculation, i.e., based on Jeremiah 25, was wrong and realized that he needs to recalculate. That verse represents the turning point between an acceptance of Jer. 25 as the date of the end of the exile and Jer. 29 as the date of the end of the exile, whilst accepting that 25 represents something else.
This original calculation was not made under Hashem's influence.

 

[David Davidovich]

Let me clarify. Daniel 9:2 comes after Daniel has realized that his original calculation, i.e., based on Jeremiah 25, was wrong and realized that he needs to recalculate. That verse represents the turning point between an acceptance of Jer. 25 as the date of the end of the exile and Jer. 29 as the date of the end of the exile, whilst accepting that 25 represents something else.
This original calculation was not made under Hashem's influence.

Thanks a lot, Harel13. That helps out a whole lot.