The Trinity

[Yes]

men who are 'born gay' have mannerisms that are obvious, getting rid of those traits can take a life-time or longer.

No one is born gay. That is absurd. That is like saying a baby girl is born sexy.

And some are just plain clueless to how they appear. For those that see themselves as effeminate, I am glad for those Bible translations that focus on the practice of allowing other men to have sex with them as being the item here that will prevent inheriting the promises. Same sex driven people have enough on their plate. To be led to believe that God's standard is stricter than it is, is to bury them in unnecessary discouragement.

A man does not have to be effeminate, and a woman does not have to be manly.

 

[sojourner]

No, that is not what we do and that is not how we get meaning.

Well, I hate to disagree with you, but it's been working that way for centuries. It's how the Jews came up with Talmud.

The Bible, the Bible in which you claim to know about, it says the way we get understanding is by obedience.

That hasn't appeared to be working for you very well. Could you provide a reference for where it says that?

 

[sojourner]

No one is born gay. That is absurd. That is like saying a baby girl is born sexy.

That contradicts what science tells us. People are born gay. There is evidence of genetic differences.

 

[Yes]

Well, I hate to disagree with you, but it's been working that way for centuries. It's how the Jews came up with Talmud.

That hasn't appeared to be working for you very well. Could you provide a reference for where it says that?

I have shown you before and I will show you again.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.


Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding. Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will make your paths straight.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.


Proverbs 3:32 for one who goes astray is an abomination to the LORD, but he reveals his intimate counsel to the upright.


Proverbs 28:5 Evildoers do not understand what is right, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully

 

[Yes]

That contradicts what science tells us. People are born gay. There is evidence of genetic differences.

People are not born gay.

 

[Kolibri]

People are not born gay.

There is a reason why I put 'born gay' in quotes. It is a debated issue that has nothing to do with religion.

I can tell you my cousin is not gay. But he was born XXYY. He was born with CAIS - Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome
Born female outwardly but builds muscle like 2 men and has never felt an attraction to men.
Even without the genetic markers, some people never relate with the gender they are outwardly. This could be caused by synthetic hormones found in our diet.
There are also many psychological stressors that could set this off.
To say that they developed a same-sex drive sometime after birth is very questionable in many of these cases.

 

[Yes]

There is a reason why I put 'born gay' in quotes. It is a debated issue that has nothing to do with religion.

I can tell you my cousin is not gay. But he was born XXYY. He was born with CAIS - Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome
Born female outwardly but builds muscle like 2 men and has never felt an attraction to men.
Even without the genetic markers, some people never relate with the gender they are outwardly. This could be caused by synthetic hormones found in our diet.
There are also many psychological stressors that could set this off.
To say that they developed a same-sex drive sometime after birth is very questionable in many of these cases.

People are not born gay.

 

[Kolibri]

People are not born gay.

statements w/o reasons to back them up are just assertions. What do you have to back up that statement?

 

[Yes]

statements w/o reasons to back them up are just assertions. What do you have to back up that statement?

You have nothing to back up your claim that people are born gay. That is like saying a baby is born sexy.

 

[sojourner]

People are not born gay.

Right. And neither are some people born with black skin. It "becomes" black later.

 

[sojourner]

People are not born gay.

Repeating yourself won't make your wish come true. It just is what it is. Sticking your head in the sand won't make it go away. People are created -- created, mind you -- homosexual.

I'll tell you what: every time you post you little sentence, "People are not born gay," I'm going to respond with the above.

 

[sojourner]

You have nothing to back up your claim that people are born gay. That is like saying a baby is born sexy.

No it isn't. Orientation has nothing to do with sex appeal.

 

[sojourner]

I have shown you before and I will show you again.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.


Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding. Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will make your paths straight.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.


Proverbs 3:32 for one who goes astray is an abomination to the LORD, but he reveals his intimate counsel to the upright.


Proverbs 28:5 Evildoers do not understand what is right, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully

None of these passages has anything to do with understanding the written texts. You're doing nothing more that quote-mining and cherry-picking, eisegeting what you want to see. The post presents nothing of worth from a debate standpoint.

 

[Willamena]

That contradicts what science tells us. People are born gay. There is evidence of genetic differences.

No one is born with who they will be attracted to determined. That's astrology, not science.

 

[JM2C]

That's what the JW's believe, not me

Ok.

 

[sojourner]

No one is born with who they will be attracted to determined. That's astrology, not science.

I disagree.

 

[Sonofason]

I disagree.

I know these are just opinions, but here's an opinion by John D'Emilio, a gay activist and history professor, "Born gay' is an idea with a large constituency, LGBT and otherwise. It's an idea designed to allay the ingrained fears of a homophobic society and the internalized fears of gays, lesbians and bisexuals. What's most amazing to me about the 'born gay' phenomenon is that the scientific evidence for it is thin as a reed, yet it doesn't matter. It's an idea with such social utility that one doesn't need much evidence in order to make it attractive and credible."
No One Is Born Gay

I agree with this guy. There is absolutely no evidence that anyone is born gay. And there never will be, because people are not born gay.

 

[sojourner]

I know these are just opinions, but here's an opinion by John D'Emilio, a gay activist and history professor, "Born gay' is an idea with a large constituency, LGBT and otherwise. It's an idea designed to allay the ingrained fears of a homophobic society and the internalized fears of gays, lesbians and bisexuals. What's most amazing to me about the 'born gay' phenomenon is that the scientific evidence for it is thin as a reed, yet it doesn't matter. It's an idea with such social utility that one doesn't need much evidence in order to make it attractive and credible."
No One Is Born Gay

I agree with this guy. There is absolutely no evidence that anyone is born gay. And there never will be, because people are not born gay.

You know what, people just are who they are and they should be accepted for who they are. Not "Being born gay" shouldn't be used as a reason for not accepting them as they are. I happen to think that at least some are born with that orientation. I've known too many who say, "I've always felt this way." I know that even I, as a heterosexual, have always felt attracted to girls/women. It didn't "dawn on me" all of a sudden at some point. Whether or not people are "born gay," I think that, at the very least, one's orientation is developed at a very young age. Nonetheless, the scientific community has determined that a homosexual orientation is natural and healthy. So I accept people as they are, without poking my nose into their bedrooms.

 

[Yes]

None of these passages has anything to do with understanding the written texts. You're doing nothing more that quote-mining and cherry-picking, eisegeting what you want to see. The post presents nothing of worth from a debate standpoint.

Those scriptures clearly say that we get understanding after we obey. You do not know Jesus unless you obey Jesus.
The Bible says that people who look at the scriptures and deny them are blind.

 

[sojourner]

Those scriptures clearly say that we get understanding after we obey. You do not know Jesus unless you obey Jesus.
The Bible says that people who look at the scriptures and deny them are blind.

Out of context, you can make them mean that. But out of context often changes the intended meaning.