The theory of evolution from the Quran

[Muslim Atheism]

This is merely the allegorical and the statement propositions from the Quran.

I have nothing to say but merely interested in hearing opinions.

So what is your opinion ?

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Giant skeletons?



.

 

[Matemkar]

The pic above is said to be fake btw.

As for evolution, I believe Ahmadi brethren only are the only Muslims who believe in total evolution. Other Muslims believe in it partially and the rest deny it.

And about the giant "people" who were there before the human beings, the Islamic traditions refer to them as Jaan (plural of Jinn) but there is no relation of the human beings to them, except for their forming of a society and causing corruption which angels mention it as you quoted.

 

[Parsimony]

I'd like to see some verification that any of those skeletons more than 10 feet in height ever existed.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

I don't know about the skeletons, neither did I suggest it is the skeletons of human beings before Adam . . . but I'm merely interested in hearing peoples' opinions and the possibilities.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

As for evolution, I believe Ahmadi brethren only are the only Muslims who believe in total evolution. Other Muslims believe in it partially and the rest deny it

Is this what they said about evolution?

Guided evolution

Rather than adopting the Darwinist theory of unguided natural selection, Ahmadi Muslims promote the supposition of “guided evolution” as being part of the progressive design of God.[3] As such they deny that natural selection occurred purely by chance,[4] or merely by survival of the fittest[5] – and view each stage of the evolutionary process as being selectively and continually woven to an intricate level by one creator (Allah).[6]

Furthermore illustrated with scientific theories and Quranic scripture, Ahmadis contend that the processes of life on Earth started from one single point of species (bacteria)[7] with a mixture of water and a viscous clay-like substance.[8] From the source of that one single organism, to the point of the first Prophet Adam (so the Ahmadiyya view) was a slow gradual evolutionary process that occurred over several stages (Lane). Each stage being of a variable timescale - perhaps over billions of years.[9]

Proponents of Ahmadiyya consider that the notion of unguided 'natural selection' does not adequately explain how various species that have progressed from the lowest forms to the highest forms have solely depended upon occurrence of random mutations within the gene pool, or purely by the demands of environmental factors. In his book Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth (published 1998), Mirza Tahir Ahmad, the late leader of the Ahmadiyya movement, elaborated the complex mechanism of evolution as having been played more like strategic game of Chess than a game of Dice.[10] Subsequently evolutionary processes could only have been guided by a vastly higher intelligence (God).

 

[Ouroboros]

It's not real.

One of the projects at some art schools in digital design is to create a "news" photo in photoshop like this. There are plenty of these pictures, and even videos that are fake.

Have you ever seen the special effects in the movies today? Where do those special effects come from? Who makes them? People who learn how to do it and sometimes have to create portfolios to show what they can do. *Gasp* Who wulda thunked...?

For instance, watch these videos of "Action Movie Kid" on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/theActionMovieKid
The videos are made by a professional special effects guy, if I understand it right. Do you believe this kid can build space ships or travel in time? Of course not. Don't believe everything you find on Internet.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

It is not much about the picture, just some idea about the possibility of human beings before the alleged first human named as 'Adam' . . Perhaps I should remove the picture so that people will not confuse it with question relating to the statement propositions in the Quran.

 

[Pastek]

.

The verses 2.65 and 7.166 talk about the Sabbath.
The Sabbath didn't existed before the Torah so what you say is wrong, it happened after Moses, so after Adam.


Your conclusion about the verse 2.30 is also wrong. Before the humans, the djinns existed. So the angels were talking about the djinns. Remember that the Devil is one of the djinns and he existed before Adam.


And concerning the punishment of some in aps, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) said :


Verily, Allah did not cause the race of those which suffered metamorphosis to grow or they were not survived by young ones. Monkeys and swine had been in existence even before (the metamorphosis of the human beings).

Hadith Muslim 2663 b
The Book of Destiny - Sahih Muslim - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ???? ???? ? ???)


A person said: Allah's Messenger, what about those apes and swine which suffered metamorphosis?
Thereupon Allah's Apostle (&#65018 said: Verily, Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, did not destroy a people or did not torment a people, and let their race grow. Apes and swine had been even before that (when the deniers of truth were tormented and suffered metamorphosis).

Hadith Muslim 2663 d
The Book of Destiny - Sahih Muslim - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ???? ???? ? ???)

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Thank you.

This is the justification for my chart . . .

The verses 2.65 and 7.166 talk about the Sabbath.
The Sabbath didn't existed before the Torah so what you say is wrong, it happened after Moses, so after Adam.

1. They became apes because they are the 'transgressors', not merely because the 'Sabbath'.

2. Verse 2.30 mentioned about the 'transgressors', ie. 'one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood'. It follows that they can also become apes because those before Adam are the 'transgressors'.

3. This is further supported by verse 50.30. For us to assume the whole world population since Adam can fill the hell would means the hell is very small. Therefore, the world population since Adam does not corroborate with the size of hell. The inference is that there must be other human beings before Adam or in other planets.

On the Day We will say to Hell,
"Have you been filled?"
and it will say, "Are there some more,"
50.30​

. . .

Your conclusion about the verse 2.30 is also wrong. Before the humans, the djinns existed. So the angels were talking about the djinns. Remember that the Devil is one of the djinns and he existed before Adam.

When Allah said to the angels:

"Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." (2.30)​

and when the angels replied:

"Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood" (2.30)​

1. This whole conversation is about a human being, not about 'djinn'.

2. Allah does not refer to the 'djinn' as the successive authority, neither did the angels or any verses in the Quran. . .

3. The whole story in verses 2.30-39 is about the creation of Adam, not djinn.

Therefore the interpretation that verse 2.30 is referring to djinn is out of context.

. . .

These are my views about verses 2.30, 2.65, 7.166 and 50.30.

 

[Pastek]

1. They became apes because they are the 'transgressors', not merely because the 'Sabbath'.

All those verses are to be understood together from the sourate 2, 7 and 4.
You can't isolate them.

4.154 And We raised over them the mount for [refusal of] their covenant; and We said to them, "Enter the gate bowing humbly", and We said to them, "Do not transgress on the sabbath", and We took from them a solemn covenant.

So all this happened after Moses, after Adam.

3. This is further supported by verse 50.30. For us to assume the whole world population since Adam can fill the hell would means the hell is very small. Therefore, the world population since Adam does not corroborate with the size of hell. The inference is that there must be other human beings before Adam or in other planets.

On the Day We will say to Hell,
"Have you been filled?"
and it will say, "Are there some more,"
50.30​

I don't understand what you mean by the verse 50.30.

When Allah said to the angels:

"Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority."
and when the angels replied: "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood" (2.30)​

1. This whole conversation is about a human being, not about 'djinn'.

2. Allah does not refer to the 'djinn' as the successive authority, neither did the angels or any verses in the Quran. . .

Who said it was human being or not something else ? God never precised what kind of creature it will be.

What you need to understand is that God created the djinns before Adam.
As you know the Devil is one of the djinn.
The angels who saw how were the djinns already living in earth (exept for Satan) have seen that they caused mischief on earth.
This are to be found in the hadiths, the prophet Muhammad talked about it.

How could the angels know that the humans can cause corruption and shed blood then ? How if they are living in paradise and worshipping God can know this things can happen ?

18.50 And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord.

They were no other djinn mentionned in the paradise. Why is that ? Because they weren't living in the earth and that's why the angels said to God what they said about the corruption and blood. That's impossible that they know about that if the djinns didn't existed before and done that.


Start the video at 8.40 for more information or make a research on internet for the hadiths.

[youtube]m58M5BcE5-Q[/youtube]

 

[Sapiens]

Why does it not surprise me that the Muslims got it wrong, just like the Christians, ... but also got it backwards too?

 

[Ouroboros]

Why does it not surprise me that the Muslims got it wrong, just like the Christians, ... but also got it backwards too?

Maybe they think that the double negative somehow makes it right?

 

[Sapiens]

Maybe they think that the double negative somehow makes it right?

An Columbia linguistics professor was lecturing his class the other day. "In English," he said, "a double negative forms a positive. However, in some languages, such as Russian, a double negative remains a negative. But there is not a single language on Earth, not one, in which a double positive can make a negative."


A voice from the back of the room piped up sarcastically, "Yeah, yeah."
​

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Okay, I appreciate your opinion and just to clarifying things.

So all this happened after Moses, after Adam.

Doesn't matter when and where it happens, my point that they become apes because of 'transgressions'.
They are the 'transgressors', so as those 'who causes corruption therein and sheds blood' before Adam. This is my point.

God never precised what kind of creature it will be.

He did, خَلِيفَةً (khalīfatan) (2:30:9) . . the context of 2.30-39 say it is Adam, the successive authority and a human being . .

Thus the reply or objection by the angels is about the creation of a 'human being' (because there are human beings before Adam but they are the transgressors),
the Khalifa or successive authority , not 'djinn'. . . unless people deny Adam as the Khalifa.

. .
That's all I want to say.

 

[Pastek]

Doesn't matter when and where it happens, my point that they become apes because of 'transgressions'. They are the 'transgressors'. This is my point.

Of course it matters because of the subject of your thread.
If they weren't transgressors why would God punish them anyway ?

Thus the reply or objection by the angels is about the creation of a 'human being' (because there are human beings before Adam but they are the transgressors), the Khalifa or successive authority , not 'djinn'.

. .
That's all I want to say.

7.27 O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he removed your parents from Paradise


Who are the other human beings then of they are not the children of Adam ?

 

[Muslim Atheism]

7.27 O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he removed your parents from Paradise


Who are the other human beings then of they are not the children of Adam ?

We are discussing about whether Allah mentioned about human being in 2.30, and I don't understand how does it relate to the context of 2.30-39 ?

. .

I'll leave the first answer since there is no new issue.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Some other fact for consideration.

Please take note the propositions that Adam and Eve are naked in heaven , like apes ? no protection against heat, cold etc ? and thus human beings before Adam are naked ?

 

[Shad]

Fur acts as a insulator for heat in the case of Apes. There are still cultures which only use clothing for decoration, rituals or symbolic reasons rather than protection from the elements. Some have various cultures have open and/or restricted nudity based on gender or social status. An evolutionary transition from Apes with fur to Humans with thin hair and bare skin would a loss of this protection. Only with the invention of clothing have we regained this protection within extreme environments outside of Africa and/or due to climate changes. We still use animal furs and skins as material in modern clothing from wool, leather and down.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

That is the possibility for human beings before Adam have fur or even apes like . . because if they are naked and their private parts are not apparent to them, and if there are animals, trees etc in heaven/earth. . . then they must have fur and there must be protection from heat and cold etc. Thus, there is the possibility that human beings before Adam look like apes etc. . .but they are humans, ie. as per verse 2.30, not apes. This is the statement propositions from the Quran.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

So he made them fall, through deception.
And when they tasted of the tree,
their private parts became apparent to them,
and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise.
And their Lord called to them,

"Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"​

7.22​

They could have transformed into apes because previous human beings are the transgressors, ie. 'one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood'.

and when the angels replied:

"Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood" (2.30)​

The Quran said the 'transgressors' have turned into apes, and maybe this is the explanation why apes share few similarities with human beings.

These are my views and supported with direct evidence that human beings can look like apes (videos).