The Paradox of a omnipotent god

[Archangel234]

I see why the trinity was formulated. Omnipotent god can create rock that cannot be lifted, yet overcomes the impasse, and is victorious in the end as the rock is defeated for all time. Bit like sin I suppose...

If god creates a rock that he cant move or change, then changes it so he can it leaves you with a rock that god can lift which makes the first creation wrong?

its more an argument of if god can make everything can he make things that are above him?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If god creates a rock that he cant move or change, then changes it so he can it leaves you with a rock that god can lift which makes the first creation wrong?

If God has the power to do everything, does he have the power to lift the rock without "making the first creation wrong"?

 

[idav]

If God has the power to do everything, does he have the power to lift the rock without "making the first creation wrong"?

Was he making a rock he is supposed to be able to lift?

 

[Archangel234]

Was he making a rock he is supposed to be able to lift?

When he made the rock its supposed to be unliftable even to him.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Simple idea,

If god is omnipotent he can make anything since hes god.

so God makes an unmoveable stone(even to god).

If god can move the stone he didn't make an truly unmoveable stone, so he cant make anything he wants meaning he isn't omnipotent but if he cant move it then he cant move something as god so he isn't all powerful as something exists that he can't move now.

Discuss.

Hmm, from a not so typical Hindu POV, Ishwar is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent, all these three must be a property of it to even be considered as GOD.

being Omnipotent, does not mean it can do anything, its just all potent all on its own. In other words it does not require any help in doing anything.

Being Omniscient, it is all knowing about everything, So its knowledge is perfect and complete.

Being Omnipresent, its pervades every thing all the time.

So, technically its smart enough to know its own limits, does not need help to get things done, and does not have a physical body. So the question of lifting anything does not arise.

 

[Archangel234]

Hmm, from a not so typical Hindu POV, Ishwar is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent, all these three must be a property of it to even be considered as GOD.

being Omnipotent, does not mean it can do anything, its just all potent all on its own. In other words it does not require any help in doing anything.

Being Omniscient, it is all knowing about everything, So its knowledge is perfect and complete.

Being Omnipresent, its pervades every thing all the time.

So, technically its smart enough to know its own limits, does not need help to get things done, and does not have a physical body. So the question of lifting anything does not arise.

I chose a stone to make it simplier didnt think it would effect the rules because it was physical. hmmm

 

[jtartar]

Simple idea,

If god is omnipotent he can make anything since hes god.

so God makes an unmoveable stone(even to god).

If god can move the stone he didn't make an truly unmoveable stone, so he cant make anything he wants meaning he isn't omnipotent but if he cant move it then he cant move something as god so he isn't all powerful as something exists that he can't move now.

Discuss.

Archangel,
Only by the Play on words is anything impossible with God. There is nothing impossible for Him, that He wants to do!!!
There are many things that God cannot do if you use, what is called a Play on Words.
True, God cannot create a stone that He cannot lift.
When Jesus said that nothing is impossible for God, Jesus meant that God can do anything that He wants to do, Matt 19:26.
Moses wrote in Job that no idea is unattainable for God, probably because God does not have silly ideas.
In Titus, Paul writes that God cannot lie.
Another thing that God cannot do is DIE, Heb 1:12, 1Tim 1:17, Rev 15:3.
Consider how the Bible describes death, Ecc 3:18-20, 9:5,10, Ps 146:3,4.
Explain to me how God became Jesus and died for us. Could it be that Jesus is actually God's son as the Holy Scriptures and Jesus say he is, John 3:16, Matt 3:17,16:13-17, Mark 9:7.

 

[Breathe]

I chose a stone to make it simplier didnt think it would effect the rules because it was physical. hmmm

What do you mean? Did you believe a god has a physical body, or interacts with the physical world, or both?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Omnipotence.

 

[RisingKnowledge]

God can always create a new law that will allow god to do what god wants without breaking the law.

If god is all knowing too he would not have to do that.

 

[beerisit]

Archangel,
Only by the Play on words is anything impossible with God. There is nothing impossible for Him, that He wants to do!!!
There are many things that God cannot do if you use, what is called a Play on Words.
True, God cannot create a stone that He cannot lift.
When Jesus said that nothing is impossible for God, Jesus meant that God can do anything that He wants to do, Matt 19:26.
Moses wrote in Job that no idea is unattainable for God, probably because God does not have silly ideas.
In Titus, Paul writes that God cannot lie.
Another thing that God cannot do is DIE, Heb 1:12, 1Tim 1:17, Rev 15:3.
Consider how the Bible describes death, Ecc 3:18-20, 9:5,10, Ps 146:3,4.
Explain to me how God became Jesus and died for us. Could it be that Jesus is actually God's son as the Holy Scriptures and Jesus say he is, John 3:16, Matt 3:17,16:13-17, Mark 9:7.

God desires everyone be saved and can't achieve that goal, not a very good god maybe.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

God creates man and gives him paradise.
God knows man would fall (omniscience), but still pretends man is capable of keeping paradise.
Man fails and his punishment is death.
God decides, well I will give them the law.
God know man cannot keep the law, so again mans punishment is death.
So roughly 1300 years later God decides the only way to fix this mess is that he must send himself in the form of a man to sacrifice himself to…..himself.
I don’t want to hear any Trinity mumbo jumbo either, all biblical scholars and I mean ALL BIBLICAL SCHOLARS, say that before the King James Version of the bible, no references to the trinity existed in its Latin, Greek and Hebrew texts.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don’t want to hear any Trinity mumbo jumbo either, all biblical scholars and I mean ALL BIBLICAL SCHOLARS, say that before the King James Version of the bible, no references to the trinity existed in its Latin, Greek and Hebrew texts.

That's not quite true.

A quick Googling tells me that the Comma Johanneum showed up in Latin texts around the 5th to 7th Century... long before the KJV.

However, I do agree that no explicit reference to the Trinity was in the original text.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

That's not quite true.

A quick Googling tells me that the Comma Johanneum showed up in Latin texts around the 5th to 7th Century... long before the KJV.

However, I do agree that no explicit reference to the Trinity was in the original text.

Yes, the Comma Johanneum was believed to be a forgery.

It is first cited by Virgilius Tapsensis, a Latin writer of no credit, in the latter end of the fifth century, and by him it is suspected to have been forged.

So yes, you are correct that the concept was around prior to the KJV, I should have said this better, it wasnt an authoritative concept till the KJV.

The historical account is this.

The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum) made its way into the third edition of Erasmus’ Greek NT (1522) because of pressure from the Catholic Church. After his first edition appeared (1516), there arose such a furor over the absence of the Comma that Erasmus needed to defend himself. He argued that he did not put in the Comma because he found no Greek manuscripts that included it. Once one was produced (codex 61, written by one Roy or Froy at Oxford in c. 1520), Erasmus apparently felt obliged to include the reading. He became aware of this manuscript sometime between May of 1520 and September of 1521. In his annotations to his third edition he does not protest the rendering now in his text, as though it were made to order; but he does defend himself from the charge of indolence, noting that he had taken care to find whatever manuscripts he could for the production of his Greek New Testament. In the final analysis, Erasmus probably altered the text because of politico-theologico-economic concerns: he did not want his reputation ruined, nor his Novum Instrumentum to go unsold.

So no, it really wasnt around in early manuscripts.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

tee hee hee...
then the rock moves it's self

that was an easy one

 

[Archangel234]

that was an easy one

not exactly since god made something he cant change, unmake or move etc
so he can give it legs can he?

 

[1137]

Simple idea,

If god is omnipotent he can make anything since hes god.

so God makes an unmoveable stone(even to god).

If god can move the stone he didn't make an truly unmoveable stone, so he cant make anything he wants meaning he isn't omnipotent but if he cant move it then he cant move something as god so he isn't all powerful as something exists that he can't move now.

Discuss.

You cannot use a logically incoherent argument to prove your own (flawed) logic correct.

 

[Thief]

God creates man and gives him paradise.
God knows man would fall (omniscience), but still pretends man is capable of keeping paradise.
Man fails and his punishment is death.
God decides, well I will give them the law.
God know man cannot keep the law, so again mans punishment is death.
So roughly 1300 years later God decides the only way to fix this mess is that he must send himself in the form of a man to sacrifice himself to…..himself.
I don’t want to hear any Trinity mumbo jumbo either, all biblical scholars and I mean ALL BIBLICAL SCHOLARS, say that before the King James Version of the bible, no references to the trinity existed in its Latin, Greek and Hebrew texts.

How about...God is hoping Man will 'catch on'.

That we fail results in death...true....death of the spirit.
Without a proper mindset, standing up from your dust, in your last hour...
might fail and you end up in the eternal darkness of the grave.

If you do stand up from your dust, without the proper mindset....
Then you enter into judgment.
That might work for you either.
And angels carry swords. Apparently to sever the living from the dead.

So with the deck stacked in His favor....
heaven remains a place of peace, and His will remains intact.
The Almighty remains the Almighty.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

When he made the rock its supposed to be unliftable even to him.

Does omnipotence include the ability to logically contradictory or impossible things?

Either answer is fine, but I see a resolution to your dilemma either way.

 

[Road Warrior]

Does omnipotence include the ability to logically contradictory or impossible things?

Either answer is fine, but I see a resolution to your dilemma either way.

It's easy when one exists outside the boundaries of the limitations of the Natural Universe.

Any idea what this is?:

Spoiler: .

Why can't we see it as it in its total nature?