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The OT vs. the NT on 'what is good'

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ideogenous_mover, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    Luke 18:19: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

    but...

    From Genesis Chapter 1

    Verse 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

    12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

    21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

    Explain that. So Is Jesus saying that he didn't make him into a good teacher/savior??
     
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  2. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Are “is” and “was” meaning the same?

    I think the whole matter depends on, in what sense good. Things can be good in some way and not good in some way at the same time. If we don’t know the point of view, we can’t say is there contradiction.

     
  3. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    Is that really the kind of trail you think the text would lead someone onto.. And do you think Jesus would agree that if I pointed at a whale, and said that it was good, that there would be no rebuke? Or would he argue that the whales, the seas, and trees had at some prior point ceased to be good?
     
  4. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, things that were created can be seen good fore example because they are functional as intended. But if the created people choose to do evil, they are not good morally. It depends on what is measured.
     
  5. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    And this thinking must extend to Jesus himself, correct? By this logic you present, he must have done evil. And yet, isn't he supposed to be the 'lamb without blemish??'
     
  6. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t say he have must done evil. Jesus himself says only good is good, but he doesn’t say it means others are then evil.
     
  7. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    The language of the bible seems mostly to refer to either good or evil, they did not call it the apple of the knowledge of good, evil, and adequacy.
     
  8. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    The 'good' IMO refers moreso to His actions, i.e. what He does is good.

    But also, because everything was literally given forth out of the Word of God, all things are indeed degrees, or portions, of His (nevertheless, infinite) goodness. You can see that from His designation, that the totality or completion of His creation, was 'very good'- a higher degree than the previous designations.
     
  9. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    So then why might not Jesus have said that he himself was good, but then God was the higher degree of good.. Rereading what is said in Genesis, your interpretation that is was the action as opposed to the creation does not strike my intuition as being correct as I read it
     
  10. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    And, maybe you're right.

    But, the it in 'it was good,' is singular each time, despite there being multiple things being created. So is it appropriate to say, for instance: 'Three rocks were rolling down a hill, and it stopped at the bottom'?

    --

    Elsewhere, Jesus sought to fulfill 'all righteousness' by being baptised by John. Imagine if he stopped there, and ignored the rest of the Father's plan for him.

    In another place, he says, 'you, being evil, know how to give good gifts.' Imagine something devoid of goodness producing something good.
     
  11. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    I am not good with languages, but I believe that in the hebrew passage there isn't even an 'it.' Nor is there a 'was' or 'were' as those are all employed moreso by english.

    I don't think I fully understand that passage. Is he being sarcastic?
     
  12. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    You're right.

    But, that begs the question: why do all translations insert an 'it'? It must be necessitated grammatically.

    --

    I don't think he was being sarcastic. Good and evil are on a spectrum (remember that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil had a single fruit). God is the only who is completely and perfectly good. All other things are lesser goods- or evil, having some absense or degree of ignorance, concerning goodness.


    If you can understand this, you'll understand the direction the world is going in, and why the second coming of Christ is foremost relative to each person. The kingdom of heaven is here for some, at hand for some, and afar off for others.
     
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