• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Importance of Correct/Accurate Terminology in Discussing Torah/Yahaduth


Well-Known Member
I plan on making this into a reference thread. That way I don't have to repeat the same information or better yet allow me to refer others to this.

The first point I would like to make is about the English term "Hebrew" and how it can be confused some incorrect "westernized" concepts. There was a recent post made by someone who, without any actual Torath Mosheh Jewish background, was making wild historical claims about our ancestors w/o any real historical or linquistic proof to it connections to us.


The importance here is that conceptually and linquistically the word Ivri (עברי) allows for a correct indentification of our ancestors internal self-descriptions rather than the ones that developed external to our language and culture. I also think by clearly relying on our own historical linquistic and cultural elments it helps make the point about the mistakes of those who use the external information to make their own politically charged claims, rather than argue with them about terms they came up with.
Last edited:


Well-Known Member
The written Torah using language that a Jew in any generation can relate to w/o it all be some over the top metaphysical babble.

One word that I would like to cover now is the English term Angel. Because of non-Jewish translation there are people who autmatically hear the word "angel" in English and think the of the following.


The above is not what Torath Mosheh Jewish sources state a (מלאך) mal'akh is.

For example, in Torath Mosheh the ability for their to be modern weather can be considered a (מלאך) mal'akh. The ability for there to be bad weather can be considered a (מלאך) mal'akh. Neither of these possibilities have free will and are not European people with wings. Yet, a Torah based prophet in a state of prophecy may see something that in his/her mind is represented as something the prophet recognizes.

I will soon post how I explained this in another post.


Well-Known Member
As I have mentioned before, one of the problems is with terminology. The English term "angel" and what it means as well as the imagery it conveyes is not Jewish in origin. When Jews use the term in English we often mean something different then what non-Jews mean with it.

For example:
  1. The original term in Hebrew is (מלאך) "mal'ach" singular or (מלאכים) "mal'achim" plural.
  2. According to Torath Mosheh sources (מלאכים) "malachim" by definition have no free will. I.e. they don't have the ability to choose and they are not human in any way.
  3. According to some Torath Mosheh sources (מלאכים) "malachim" by definition are elements of reality that Hashem put in place in order to the natural universe to work.
    • Kind of like say that there are (מלאכים) "malachim" the forces how physical and non-physical world can work. I.e. kind of like physics, chemistry, thermodynmics.
    • According to this view these are what Hashem put in place in order for the universe to work BUT it is not like physics has a will of its own or even thinks.
  4. According to some Torath Mosheh source (מלאכים) "malachim", again with no free will, are the elements of the universe where understandings of how the universe works reside.
    • I.e. a prophet when in the mode of prophecy when interacting with a (מלאך) "mal'ach" is not interacting with a being or an entity, but instead an element of reality that makes it clear what he/she is supposed to get out of the experience.
    • In the prophet's vision it appears in a way that the prophet would understand it. I.e. like someone having a conversation with someone when reality they are experiencing what Hashem wants them to get out of the encounter with something above human consciousness.
    • Kind of like a prophet seeing events of the future, but in their vision of it, they are being guided by someone when in reality they are being guided by the reality of what will happen and not by someoen.
It gets a bit metaphysical, and that is in Hebrew. The main key is that a (מלאך) "mal'ach" is not a physical being, it is not human or human like, and it does not have free will. It is simply an element of how the will of Hashem exists in reality.


Well-Known Member
Another issue is the claim that some make that the "Israelites" came from the "Canaanites."

There are a number of problems with this claim. The first of which is that often people don't address the question of, Who "exactly" were the Canaanites and what happened to them?

What this means is that in order for one to claim that ethinic group B came from, or had its origins, from ethinic group A you first have to define in detail who was ethnic group A. Then you would have to detail who was ethnic group B and give specific historical events, with dates, of how ethnic group B developed and proof from ethnic group A that B actually came from them.

With the Canaanites there are number of issues with this point.






Well-Known Member
One more thing about the Canaanites that is often skipped over is the fact that most of the information about the Canaaites comes form non-Canaanite sources.