The Homophobe Game

[No*s]

This thread is inspired by Becky's thread about how everything doesn't have to be about homosexuality.

It is obviously known that I am a homosexual - and that I'm not ashamed of that fact. However, what I am becoming ashamed of is that everytime someone with a different view on homosexuality states their opinion, they are more often than not labled a homophobe or a bigot. I'm not here to claim that these people are or they aren't - for I have no idea where their prejudices lie. However, I am tired of the intolerance that goes into calling people such names. What does it say about the name caller? Are they any less bigoted, prejudice, or intolerant? It's not for me to say, but I think it's time all of us on RF begin to take a look in the mirror and see if you like what's reflected.

Another thing I am sick of is people claiming that since someone's religion is in opposition to homosexuality, that the person must therefore be opposed to homosexuality. That's not always the case. Perhaps the majority of that religion are, but it doesn't mean all are. Some people will say "Well, that's a homophobic church." Well, it doesn't mean every member is a homophobe. I used to be a Christian (WELS Lutheran) in a very conservative church, but I was very pro-LGBT rights. Was I a homophobe for being a member of that church? I don't think so. I live in a country that denies LGBT people certain civil rights. Am I a homophobe for living in that country? I certainly hope not. So, why can't we stop judging people by what their religions say, and judge them by their words, actions, and deeds?

Frubals!

Too often labels like that are used as a hammar to push beliefs just as much as it is when someone tries to outlaw it. Live and let live, and let everyone practice their faith the way they wish without that sort of recrimination, and that applies to individuals and orginizations on both sides of the issue.

 

[Quiddity]

This thread is inspired by Becky's thread about how everything doesn't have to be about homosexuality.

It is obviously known that I am a homosexual - and that I'm not ashamed of that fact. However, what I am becoming ashamed of is that everytime someone with a different view on homosexuality states their opinion, they are more often than not labled a homophobe or a bigot. I'm not here to claim that these people are or they aren't - for I have no idea where their prejudices lie. However, I am tired of the intolerance that goes into calling people such names. What does it say about the name caller? Are they any less bigoted, prejudice, or intolerant? It's not for me to say, but I think it's time all of us on RF begin to take a look in the mirror and see if you like what's reflected.

Another thing I am sick of is people claiming that since someone's religion is in opposition to homosexuality, that the person must therefore be opposed to homosexuality. That's not always the case. Perhaps the majority of that religion are, but it doesn't mean all are. Some people will say "Well, that's a homophobic church." Well, it doesn't mean every member is a homophobe. I used to be a Christian (WELS Lutheran) in a very conservative church, but I was very pro-LGBT rights. Was I a homophobe for being a member of that church? I don't think so. I live in a country that denies LGBT people certain civil rights. Am I a homophobe for living in that country? I certainly hope not. So, why can't we stop judging people by what their religions say, and judge them by their words, actions, and deeds?

Excellent...:clap

 

[Mister_T]

I agree, although I would call them anti-gay, not homophobic.

Agreed

 

[Mike182]

I agree, although I would call them anti-gay, not homophobic.

at first glance, the two seems to be the same, but when i think about it, you are right

thanks!:bounce

 

[Sunstone]

If a person expresses an irrational view on some topic, and then persists in that view despite their having the unreasonableness of their position pointed out to them, doesn't that in itself raise the legitimate suspicion that there is more at work in how they arrived at their view than reason alone?

 

[michel]

If a person expresses an irrational view on some topic, and then persists in that view despite their having the unreasonableness of their position pointed out to them, doesn't that in itself raise the legitimate suspicion that there is more at work in how they arrived at their view than reason alone?

I agree. We are all human, and all of us have pre-coinceived ideas that are hard to shift. Some of those thoughts may be from our cultural background, or perhaps from a Religious or moral stance.

However, once we have been presented with whatever it is we are prejudiced against, we need to re-evaluate our beliefs. Now, personally I was homophobic as a boy; I make no excuses for it - that was what I was brought up to believe.

Of course, I have come a long way since then, and my views on that subject have undergone a drastic change.

The way I see it, is that is there is a homophobe, and he expresses his view with respect and dignity, and then accepts that he will have to 'beg to differ', I think we can all respect that. It is the guy who calls people names, knowing how much those people are hard done by, when it becomes unnacceptable.

What I would say to the OP is that it is a very generous thought, and I would agree with it completely, as long as the person who cannot accept homosexuality (for whatever reason) doesn't actually go out of his way to humiliate and hurt. That's when it becomes unnaceptable.

 

[Mister_T]

If a person expresses an irrational view on some topic, and then persists in that view despite their having the unreasonableness of their position pointed out to them, doesn't that in itself raise the legitimate suspicion that there is more at work in how they arrived at their view than reason alone?

Yes. This is one of those actions that speak louder than words.

 

[Sunstone]

What I would say to the OP is that it is a very generous thought, and I would agree with it completely, as long as the person who cannot accept homosexuality (for whatever reason) doesn't actually go out of his way to humiliate and hurt. That's when it becomes unnaceptable.

This is as good a formulation of my own position as any I've come up with myself, Michel.

Let's say I assert that the moon is made of cheese. Someone challenges me on this and overtime presents me with a huge body of evidence that contradicts my notion the moon is made of cheese. Nevertheless, I persist in my folly of believing the moon is made of cheese. Doesn't that person have every intellectual right to wonder whether I'm intellectually perverse, or even off my rocker? I would say they do. But if that's where it ends, then I am merely a harmless eccentric.

Suppose, however, that's not where it ends. Suppose that I am so perverse in my opinion that I begin to label everyone who disagrees with me as sinners, devil worshipers, or whatever other hateful terms I can come up with. Haven't I then crossed the line of decency? Isn't this latter thing something altogether different from merely holding an eccentric opinion?

 

[standing_alone]

If a person expresses an irrational view on some topic, and then persists in that view despite their having the unreasonableness of their position pointed out to them, doesn't that in itself raise the legitimate suspicion that there is more at work in how they arrived at their view than reason alone?

Yes it does. However, what I'm saying is we shouldn't start calling people homophobes, bigots, anti-gay, what-have-you, just because they express a mild opinion (like "I believe homosexuality is a sin" or "I'm for civil unions, not marriage") against homosexuality. I'm saying homosexuality should not be brought up in threads that have nothing to do with it. That's all I'm asking for. I'm not saying what I'm asking for is right, I'm just stating why I think it's right, and that's why this is in the debates section, so you can debate what I've said.

 

[standing_alone]

However, once we have been presented with whatever it is we are prejudiced against, we need to re-evaluate our beliefs.

I agree, however, just calling people names like "bigot" isn't a helpful way to make people re-evaluate their beliefs. All it does is create more animosity.

 

[d.]

a mild opinion (like "I believe homosexuality is a sin"

i don't know about the US, but this wouldn't be considered a mild opinion here.

I'm saying homosexuality should not be brought up in threads that have nothing to do with it. That's all I'm asking for.

a reasonable request.

I agree, however, just calling people names like "bigot" isn't a helpful way to make people re-evaluate their beliefs. All it does is create more animosity.

maybe they'll learn from the experience.

probably not. these people seldom seem to think that they themselves need to learn anything.

 

[standing_alone]

i don't know about the US, but this wouldn't be considered a mild opinion here.

Well, I personally don't consider that a mild opinion myself, but since this is a religious forum and most of the posters seem to be from the US (which for some reason - well I think I know why, really seems to be finding God lately), I decided it is a mild opinion in that respect. I think it's kind of stupid opinion, but looking at it from a religious point-of-view, I understand where these people are coming from. I used to be a Christian and believed homosexuality was a sin as well - and I'm a homosexual. I don't believe this anymore now that my beliefs are secular, but through my experience, I can understand that just because someone believes homosexuality is a sin, doesn't mean they hate homosexuals or think homosexuals should be discriminated against because of their orientation.

 

[Bishka]

Well, I personally don't consider that a mild opinion myself, but since this is a religious forum and most of the posters seem to be from the US (which for some reason - well I think I know why, really seems to be finding God lately), I decided it is a mild opinion in that respect. I think it's kind of stupid opinion, but looking at it from a religious point-of-view, I understand where these people are coming from. I used to be a Christian and believed homosexuality was a sin as well - and I'm a homosexual. I don't believe this anymore now that my beliefs are secular, but through my experience, I can understand that just because someone believes homosexuality is a sin, doesn't mean they hate homosexuals or think homosexuals should be discriminated against because of their orientation.

Amen! That's how I feel. I believe it is a sin, but am I a homphobe or bigot?

 

[standing_alone]

I believe it is a sin, but am I a homphobe or bigot?

Yes, Becky, you are!

Nah, you're one of the sweetest people on the forums and one of the most tolerant and accepting people as well. I'm glad to have gotten to know you and overcome some of my own prejudices.

 

[Bishka]

Yes, Becky, you are!

Nah, you're one of the sweetest people on the forums and one of the most tolerant and accepting people as well. I'm glad to have gotten to know you and overcome some of my own prejudices.

Aww. Thank you Alyssa. You've always been kind to me, and I appreciate that. I try not to be bigoted or a homophobe.

 

[Maxist]

kudos... must I say more?