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Featured The Greatness of Christ

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by loverofhumanity, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Consider:

    The son of a poor carpenter, insignificant snd unschooled, from an insignificant place, changes the course of civilisation, transforms the lives of billions of people, and even over 2,000 years later, thousands of churches and billions of people come together to celebrate His Birth.

    What did He do or say that had such an effect on the world?

    Or was it not so much what He said but the invisible force of the Holy Spirit which generated such an influence over the hearts and souls and continues to this day?

    Please feel free to share your views about the greatness of this wonderful Soul Who taught us to love one another, something we still struggle to do today.

    Your thoughts?

    And whether you celebrate His Birth or not I wish those who do a very Merry Christmas by leaving this tribute to Jesus, the Son of God.

    The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

    We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified. (Baha’u’llah)
     
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  2. Salty Booger

    Salty Booger Royal Crown Cola (RC)

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    Truly amazing, yes.
     
  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Their use of Satan to scare people into the pews is their greatest asset of success. Peace sells, but who's buying? Much like today, even back then fear is a powerful motivator.
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I'm honestly more interested in believers personal experiences and how they internally came to conclusions of gods concern, what he does and doesn't do, and what they are told and not told by god. The bible and Bahaullah's writings are fine. Anyone can read it and either scrutinizes or appreciate the teachings that doesn't or does provide spiritual confirmation. However, if god is internal in nature, I'm sure there would be a internal dialogue that would express the greatness of christ?

    Anyone can read "about" christ but many who are told about the greatness of christ rarely have a chance to "see" christ in people's behaviors and words. Maybe the focus should be less on scripture and more on reflection of one's behaviors and verbal expression thereof?
     
  5. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    A basic human truth. Mother.

    Mother is first. Without a mother there would be no Jesus story.

    Science human male brother agreement to own artificial reasoning.

    Machines.

    O mother of God placated spatial womb vacuum owned held form.

    Males owned that preaching as the earth theme.

    Females. Mistreated and abused for a long time by inequality of self idolized man.

    How much of God planet earths origins held is sacrificed into holes in science choice?

    Origins.

    How many garden plants sacrificed destroyed?

    And animals?

    What about female life suffering?

    When a story quotes ice returning every end of year keeps bio life in a stable birthing condition. That was the story.

    A scientfic explanation.

    Basic common sense. Basic information. And a non self idolisation practice that causes all problems. Inequality.

    A male in science teaching quotes I am warning you all. My life stigmata harmed is going to die. By a God earth heart core release.

    Humans quote. He knew and it happened.

    The scientific status. Human proof to human self.

    Reads the information that quotes organisation science is a hypocrite.

    And today you still ignore your owned male wisdom.
     
  6. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Yes definitely. I think over the ages we’ve witnessed many sincere Christians tend to the poor, sick, elderly, orphaned and disabled. I went to church when I was a child and through my experiences with Christ I learned things like love and to be truthful, things that became a part of me.
     
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  7. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    I went to church and saw hypocrisy. A drunk father priest who asked a poor family whose alcoholic father abused them. Asked for money.

    I worked for the disabled. I learnt positive healing spirituality and served my family for free. Spirit quotes no one owned spirit.

    I believed that advice. God O the planet owned the history.

    I saw the abuse church. But I was taught no human is perfect. Allow anyone to learn and change. Condemn no one to being wrong.

    I dedicated my love to learning. My human family needed it
     
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  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Admittedly, since I was not raised as a Christian, and never even read one page of the Bible until about eight years ago, I do not know as much as I would like to regarding what is in the gospels, but from what I have read I have to say that I can fully understand why Christians are so taken with Jesus.

    Much of what I know and this my deep respect for Jesus comes from what I have read about Jesus in the Baha'i Writings. For example:

    “But in the day of the Manifestation the people with insight see that all the conditions of the Manifestation are miracles, for They are superior to all others, and this alone is an absolute miracle. Recollect that Christ, solitary and alone, without a helper or protector, without armies and legions, and under the greatest oppression, uplifted the standard of God before all the people of the world, and withstood them, and finally conquered all, although outwardly He was crucified. Now this is a veritable miracle which can never be denied. There is no need of any other proof of the truth of Christ.” Some Answered Questions, p. 101
     
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  9. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    That is so awesome and true. I love the way you find quotes so relevant. It’s a special gift. It’s Christmas in 2020 and billions will pay respect to Him. Amazing!
     
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  10. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    This quote completely glosses over the fact that Christianity was insignificant until backed by Constantine, which suggests to me it was Constantine who was the great influencer of Western civilisation and not Jesus.
     
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  11. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Who is remembered and glorified today by billions all over the world, Constantine or Christ?
     
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  12. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Who is remembered and celebrated by billions of children today, Coca cola or Santa claus?

    It is due to the influence of Coke that everyone loves Santa claus and it is due to the influence of Constantine that Jesus is remembered and glorified.
     
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  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    In a certain sense you are correct, because we cannot really know if Christianity would have died out or continued to spread without the influence of Constantine, not anymore than we can know if the Baha'i Faith will continue to spread and someday have a great influence upon the world. Right now, it is only a belief.

    Paul's concept of Christianity

    Paul's teaching centred on understanding the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as a central turning point in history.

    He understood the resurrection to signal the end of the need to live under Jewish law.

    Instead Paul taught of living in the Spirit in which the power of God was made to work through human flesh.

    Some of his letters to fledgling churches throughout the Roman Empire are contained in the New Testament and outline Paul's theology.

    He insisted that Gentiles had as much access to the faith as Jews and that freedom from the Law set everyone free.

    It was this teaching which was essential for the development and success of the early church which would otherwise have remained nothing more than another Jewish sect.

    Roman Empire

    Paul established Christian churches throughout the Roman Empire, including Europe, and beyond - even into Africa.

    Persecution

    However, in all cases, the church remained small and was persecuted, particularly under tyrannical Roman emperors like Nero (54-68), Domitian (81-96), under whom being a Christian was an illegal act, and Diocletian (284-305).

    Many Christian believers died for their faith and became martyrs for the church (Bishop Polycarp and St Alban amongst others).

    Constantine turns the tide

    When a Roman soldier, Constantine, won victory over his rival in battle to become the Roman emperor, he attributed his success to the Christian God and immediately proclaimed his conversion to Christianity.

    Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire.

    Constantine then needed to establish exactly what the Christian faith was and called the First Council of Nicea in 325 AD which formulated and codified the faith.

    Formulating the faith

    Over the next few centuries, there were debates and controversies about the precise interpretation of the faith, as ideas were formulated and discussed.

    The Council of Chalcedon held in 451 was the last council held whilst the Roman Empire was intact. It gave rise to the Nicene Creed which Christians still say today to affirm their belief in God, Christ and his church.

    When Rome fell in 476, it meant that Western and Eastern Christians were no longer under the same political rule and differences in belief and practice arose between them.

    The Great Schism

    The differences between Eastern and Western Christianity culminated in what has been called the Great Schism, in 1054, when the patriarchs of the Eastern and Western division (of Constantinople and Rome respectively) were unable to resolve their differences.

    The split led to the Orthodox church and the Roman Catholic church.

    The Orthodox church does not recognise the authority of the Roman papacy and claims a Christian heritage in direct descent from the Christian church of Christ's believers.

    BBC - Religions - Christianity: The basics of Christian history
     
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  14. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    I’ll go with what the Prophets say as They are All Knowing and we are not.

    Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit. (Baha’u’llah)
     
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  15. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Abdul-Baha states that only through the power of the Holy Spirit is man able to make true progress. So when we see history change like that, I believe it was the Holy Spirit not Constantine that in reality effected the growth of Christianity. Although the materialistic view will insist it was Constantine, the spiritual soul will clearly see the workings of the Holy Spirit here. That is what I believe. Constantine in reality, would have been a nobody, if it were not for him exalting the Cause of Christ. His memory is because of just that.


    Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 163-167


    In the teaching of Bahá’u’lláh, it is written: ‘By the Power of the Holy Spirit alone is man able to progress, for the power of man is limited and the Divine Power is boundless.’ The reading of history brings us to the conclusion that all truly great men, the benefactors of the human race, those who have moved men to love the right and hate the wrong and who have caused real progress, all these have been inspired by the force of the Holy Spirit.

    The Prophets of God have not all graduated in the schools of learned philosophy; indeed they were often men of humble birth, to all appearance ignorant, unknown men of no importance in the eyes of the world; sometimes even lacking the knowledge of reading and writing.

    That which raised these great ones above men, and by which they were able to become Teachers of the truth, was the power of the Holy Spirit. Their influence on humanity, by virtue of this mighty inspiration, was great and penetrating.

    The influence of the wisest philosophers, without this Spirit Divine, has been comparatively unimportant, however extensive their learning and deep their scholarship.

    The unusual intellects, for instance, of Plato, Aristotle, Pliny and Socrates, have not influenced men so greatly that they have been anxious to sacrifice their lives for their teachings; whilst some of those simple men so moved humanity that thousands of men have become willing martyrs to uphold their words; for these words were inspired by the Divine Spirit of God!

    We understand that the Holy Spirit is the energizing factor in the life of man.
     
    #15 loverofhumanity, Dec 25, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
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  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Personally I think it is demonstrable that the prophets were not all-knowing.

    The Gospel disagrees that Jesus was all-knowing.

    Luke 2:52 'And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature' (NIV)
    Not possible to grow in wisdom if you are all-knowing.

    Mathew 24:36 '“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."'
    See also Mark 13:32.

    Not possible to be All-knowing if there is something you don't know.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But how does that actually translate into something that we can isolate and understand?

    Abdu'l-Baha said that the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God, so how does that actually affect the life of man?
    Maybe this would be a good topic for another thread.
     
  18. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    The Four Gospels were written after Him [Christ]. John, Luke, Mark and Matthew - these four wrote after Christ what they remembered of His utterances.
    (From a previously untranslated Tablet) (Baha’u’llah)

    What individuals remembered may not have been entirely accurate.

    Baha’u’llah states that Christ’s knowledge was identical to God’s knowledge.

    The door of the knowledge of the Ancient Being hath ever been, and will continue for ever to be, closed in the face of men. No man’s understanding shall ever gain access unto His holy court. As a token of His mercy, however, and as a proof of His loving-kindness, He hath manifested unto men the Day Stars of His divine guidance, the Symbols of His divine unity, and hath ordained the knowledge of these sanctified Beings to be identical with the knowledge of His own Self.
     
  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Baha'u'llah's claim to being All-knowing is a circular claim, nothing more.
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Only God is All-Knowing, Imo.

    Baha'u'llah never claimed to be All-Knowing, so if Baha'is interpret what He wrote to mean that then they are misinterpreting what He wrote.

    Baha'u'llah said "This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing."
    Baha'u'llah did not say "This thing is from Me, One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing."

    “O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon Mycouch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57
     
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