The Great Flood

[Kowalski]

Excellent post, case well and truly closed I believe.

K

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Excellent post, case well and truly closed I believe.

K

Thank you for the compliment, I do this sort of thing for a living, and take pride in my work. Sadly tho, when someone trounces a myth so badly, it often kills the thread, which was not my intent.

B.

 

[almifkhar]

actually science has proved that massave floods happened worldwide, infact more than once. for example, in n. america on the n.w. side of the contentent, scientist have proved that superfloods have happened many times in the past. how this happened is that when the ice sheets start to melt, sometimes this melt water collects in the middle of the glacier. as time goes by, this water gets heavier and heavier and ends up breaking free which causes massive walls of water to rain down on the land and this water destroyes everything in its path.
also there are sunken cities all over the world farther out in the oceans than one might think.
every culture has a flood story so there must be truth to it if cultures who would have never meet eachother has an account of the flood.
for those who wonder why god would kill off 90% of humanity there is a myth that may intrest you.
according bibical accounts the fallen angels (satans leigons) were having sex with the earth women which resulted in the births of shall we say hybrids. aparantly, the goal for this was to get into the chosen bloodline so as to infilltrate it for evil ends. god got hip to it and decided to kill off these hybrids so this would not happen.

 

[Snowbear]

So what would be gods reason for it?

According to the story, it was Judgement.

Why would he kill all the humans in the world, if there were more outside of the world?

He didn't kill them all. Noah, his sons and their wives were spared.

Also, why would Noah float around on the boat for 40 days and 40 nights?

They were floating a lot longer than 40 days and nights

Why not just float it over to more land?

Cause there was no dry land.

If it was just that area why didn't god just tell Noah to flee the area instead of building a boat?

It wasn't local. It was global (despite what the nay-sayers say )

... Noah, who apparently was the only one who was gods friend in that area.

Yep, Noah and his sons were the faithful ones. On faith, the ark was built. The story says while he was building the ark, he preached and preached to the people. They just laughed at him. I bet they were pounding on the door when it started raining, though

God promised the next judgement would not be by flood, but by fire. A bunch of us 'Noahs' are being mocked and ridiculed for our faith. As in Noah's day when the heavens opened and started dumping water on the world, mock away.... I'm already on the ark

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Hey Stewpidloser,

Care to explain to me how the entire Earth was covered with water? And where that water came from, and just as importantly where that water went to after the flood?

Call me your friendly neighborhood naysayer.

B.

 

[Qumran]

Please, bore us with the details. Debates do little if you're just saying, "there's evidence, but you don't get to know what it is." It really discredits your position.

My post was not made by way of debate. In order for a debate to happen you have to have opposing views with people giving their arguments pro and con. I have taken no position on the Noah's flood debate. YOU folks can debate your brains out if you like. I prefer to stay out of it.

My post made the simple point that there is abundant evidence for a large flood in the general area in which Noah is said to have lived. I did not say this was evidence that a GLOBAL flood occured, merely that there is evidence for a large local one(s).

In order to reduce the "boredom factor" allow me to make some quick points.

1- The fact that I know of evidence you are unaware of, in no way "discredits my position," as you suggest - except maybe, in your eyes. You will forgive me if I opt not to try and download 30 years of learning onto a thread post, for the convenience of the curious.

2- This evidence is niether secret nor even hard to find. Although my information does not come from the internet, I googled a few sites that might be helpful to you. The sites are varied and I list them ONLY to demonstrate that there is sound reason to believe large LOCAL floods occured. These floods MAY or MAY NOT have given rise to the Noah's flood story.

http://www.ancientdays.net/universalflood.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/tech/main564233.shtm
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news165.htm
http://www.bibleorigins.net/NoahsArkillustrationPictureSumerianShuruppak.html

3- I have not entirely ruled out the possibility that the Global flood account in Genesis may have a basis in fact, despite the posts of some people who carelessly dismiss the whole thing as pure myth. They're simplistic logic ignores many. many factors.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

I absolutely believe in the Great Flood. Evidence? I take the Bible literally. God said He flooded the entire Earth...that means he did. Enough said.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

3- I have not entirely ruled out the possibility that the Global flood account in Genesis may have a basis in fact, ...

That's a somewhat sophomoric statemebt. What, precisely, do you mean by it?

 

[Aqualung]

My post was not made by way of debate. In order for a debate to happen you have to have opposing views with people giving their arguments pro and con.

Of course. If one side does not give it's evidence, you will have a pretty dumb debate.

YOU folks can debate your brains out if you like. I prefer to stay out of it.

Then why post it in the first place?

In order to reduce the "boredom factor" allow me to make some quick points.

1- The fact that I know of evidence you are unaware of, in no way "discredits my position," as you suggest - except maybe, in your eyes. You will forgive me if I opt not to try and download 30 years of learning onto a thread post, for the convenience of the curious.

I didn't say it did discredit you. I was just saying that people aren't going just beleive you, because you say it's true. You'll have to give facts.

2- This evidence is niether secret nor even hard to find. Although my information does not come from the internet, I googled a few sites that might be helpful to you. The sites are varied and I list them ONLY to demonstrate that there is sound reason to believe large LOCAL floods occured. These floods MAY or MAY NOT have given rise to the Noah's flood story.

I know it's not hard to find. But thanks for finding it for me. It certainly gives you credit that you would find that instead of sticking your head in and making a baseless statement, and then not providing a base later on.

 

[Druidus]

I absolutely believe in the Great Flood. Evidence? I take the Bible literally. God said He flooded the entire Earth...that means he did. Enough said.

What makes you think God said it? There's no evidence that GOd said it, and there's no evidence that God did it. You're believing in something for no verifiable reason.

Perhaps if you have documented proof of God saying something, your statement would hold some validity. But there are none. The Bibile does not count. It was written by men. If these men say that God exists and speaks through them, does that make it true? There is no reason to believe in the Bible's accuracy, merely because the Bible itself claims it is accurate.

 

[Valjean]

actually science has proved that massave floods happened worldwide, infact more than once. for example, in n. america on the n.w. side of the contentent, scientist have proved that superfloods have happened many times in the past. how this happened is that when the ice sheets start to melt, sometimes this melt water collects in the middle of the glacier. as time goes by, this water gets heavier and heavier and ends up breaking free which causes massive walls of water to rain down on the land and this water destroyes everything in its path.
also there are sunken cities all over the world farther out in the oceans than one might think.

Good post, Almifkhar. You've hit the nail on the head. There were floods all over the world at the end of the last glacial period as the climate warmed and ice dams melted. The American flood you mention was the release of glacial lake Missoula. There was another huge flood in the Old World when the ice dam blocking the Bosporus collapsed and the Mediterranean poured through. A quiet lakeside community suddenly found itself at the bottom of a new, Black Sea.

Such huge, catastrophic floods were, no doubt, preserved and magnified in folklore.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Ahem,

I never said massive floods don't happen. For goodness sakes anyone with a TV can see that massive floods continue to happen to this day. Asian Tsunami or Katrina ring any bells?

I simply stated there was no flood which covered the entire planet in water over a mile deep. As previously stated to flood the entire world's land masses, there must be a rise in ocean level more than one mile. I don't recall off the top of my head how high K-2 or Himalaya are, but I know them to be far in excess of a mile.

Great Flood covering entire world's land mass did not happen.

Large regional floods no doubt led to the myth of a global flood. Such stories exist in many different cultures. I acknowledge this, and never said otherwise.

And saying there is evidence cause the Bible said it happened is pretty obtuse dear. Makes about as much sense in a debate as saying "it is so because I say it is so"

B.

 

[Qumran]

That's a somewhat sophomoric statemebt. What, precisely, do you mean by it?

What I mean is this: None of us were there, so unless I see conclusive evidence that a GLOBAL flood did NOT occur (not the shallow arguments I've seen here so far), it would be foolish on my part to take an inflexible, dogmatic position on this subject.

Granted, looking at the Bible account from an objective, non-religious point of view, a flood that completely covered all the world's mountains seems to me to be pretty unlikely. Having said that, I am old enough to have seen the objections of skeptics and critics fall apart with some newly unearthed discovery confirming the accuracy of Bible history.

The Bible is unlike other religious books which mostly consist of mythologies or allegory. Its histories, even those scoffed at by so-called "authorities," are often later found to be rooted in solid fact.

This is why I am not prepared to dismiss the possibility of Noah's flood - short of conclusive (or semi-conclusive) evidence to the contrary. WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

 

[Qumran]

Your post seems to be good-natured so I will respond in the same good spirit. Would just like to clarify a thing or two...

Of course. If one side does not give it's evidence, you will have a pretty dumb debate.

As I said before..I was commenting, NOT debating. There's a difference.

Then why post it in the first place?

Because I think it contributed to the discussion. After all, the thread starter asked if she was the only one who believed in Noah's flood. Why does every post have to challenge someone else?

I didn't say it did discredit you. I was just saying that people aren't going just beleive you, because you say it's true. You'll have to give facts.

I never said you said it discredited ME. Your exact quote was "discredits your position." I responded by saying it did not discredit my position.

As for people BELIEVING me - that is not my concern or my goal. I am convinced that people will NOT change their beliefs based on my posts!!! :biglaugh: As I said before, I was merely putting in my '2 cents.' "Sauce for the goose."

As for my giving "facts," if you checked the links (I gave them ONLY as a starting point for research - Not as complete arguments) you discovered that there is, indeed, evidence for a large local flood - So my post WAS factually accurate.

I know it's not hard to find. But thanks for finding it for me.

You are very welcome.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

The Bibile does not count. It was written by men.

Well, OK. Since that's what you want to believe, there's no talking you out of it.

If these men say that God exists and speaks through them, does that make it true?

Yes. They were chosen by God to write down His words.

This where the faith-part comes in.

There is no reason to believe in the Bible's accuracy, merely because the Bible itself claims it is accurate.

Actually, the Bible is very accurate. The scribes who made copies of the Bible in the early days of Christianity would go back after copying each chapter, and count the number of:

-words
-consonants
-syllabels

They also knew the:

-word that was in the middle of each chapter
-letter that was in the middle of each chapter

If one thing was out of place, the chapter was burned, and they would start over. This went on for many, many years. Plus we can see from ancient scrolls that our Bibles today are exactly alike.

There are plenty of books out there on this subject. I suggest you read some of them. The New Evidance was a very good book, but I don't remember who the author was (I borrowed it from a friend).

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

ChristianGirl,

You speak to the accuracy of the Bible by noting the methods used by the copy-ers of the Bible. No doubt the methods you describe would ensure the accuracy of one copy to another, but it does not address the issue that the original, from which all the later copies came from was ultimately handwritten by a human being.

And, how do you know those men were chosen by God to write anything down? You chose to beleive it simply because the writers have claimed it. Jim Jones had a lot of people convinced he was right, all the way up until the time the Cool-aid kicked in. Anyone still around that thinks Jim was the answer?

You are still using circular logic. Just keep saying the Bible and everything in it is literally true. Then when someone asks you how you know the Bible to be true, then say, "cause the Bible says so". Then sit back and think about that logic for a bit. . . . I beleive in X (X can be anything). X is the absolute truth. Why do you beleive X to be the absolute truth. Because X says it is.

I can claim to have won the Texas Lottery. But unless I can produce the winning ticket, I don't think anyone is going to cut me a check. Using the Bible to substantiate stories from the Bible is akin to me expecting to be paid just cause Iclaim to have won the lottery.

B.

 

[Ryan2065]

What I mean is this: None of us were there, so unless I see conclusive evidence that a GLOBAL flood did NOT occur (not the shallow arguments I've seen here so far), it would be foolish on my part to take an inflexible, dogmatic position on this subject.

And you are saying that someone in Noah's time could know there was a global flood? This would require them to know that everywhere in the entire world there was water and there was no land. For any person to know this back then they would have had to have god tell them, or be making it up. =)

 

[Qumran]

And you are saying that someone in Noah's time could know there was a global flood?

????...When did I say that? I made no reference to what THEY did or did not know. I said I could neither confirm nor deny that a global flood occured based upon the evidence WE have now.

For any person to know this back then they would have had to have god tell them, or be making it up. =)

Agreed.

 

[Ryan2065]

????...When did I say that? I made no reference to what THEY did or did not know. I said I could neither confirm nor deny that a global flood occured based upon the evidence WE have now.

I took this to mean that you thought Noah was an eye witness (the below thing)

What I mean is this: None of us were there, so unless I see conclusive evidence that a GLOBAL flood did NOT occur (not the shallow arguments I've seen here so far), it would be foolish on my part to take an inflexible, dogmatic position on this subject.

 

[Qumran]

I took this to mean that you thought Noah was an eye witness (the below thing)

I was simply saying that since none of us (people alive today) were there, we do not have first hand knowledge of what happened. None of us were with Noah as eye witnesses. Neither were we people living in another part of the world to have observed that Noah's flood was a global phenomenon.

If you choose to believe a global flood occured, as the Bible appears to suggest, then be my guest. That is your right and priviledge. You may be right, you may be wrong. Maybe, it doesn't even matter if you're right or wrong. A person's faith may be all the "right" they need.

BUT, if we are going to go on EVIDENCE alone, then the case for a global flood is inconclusive, at best. There is, however, evidence for a large local one.

I apologize if my post was unclear.