The Good News about Genes and Mental Disorders

[Nous]

Can you elaborate on how to feed millions of starving people daily? That's kind of my point. Forget about genes and let's get to more immediate problems that affect millions of people who literally are in great pain.

What have you been doing lately "to feed millions of starving people daily"?

 

[First Baseman]

What have you been doing lately "to feed millions of starving people daily"?

I do what I can. Do you?

 

[Burl]

What is the context in which and the basis for which you have been recommending drugs to "schizophrenics"?

I live with a paranoid schizophrenic and upon reading this post will now stop recommending professional intervention for the voices only he can hear.

Is that how you normally refer to people who have merely received a diagnosis of a psychotic disorder?

His case makes up the total of my experience in the field.

 

[Burl]

How about if more people figure more on how to feed all the starving people in the world and forget about studies like this?

To ease our conscience:
(just for the record)

One acre of wheat provides bread for thirty people per annum.

70 million x 30 =two billion one hundred million.

population of usa =318.9 million (2014)

two billion one hundred million - 318.9 million = one billion seven hundred eighty-one million one hundred thousand extra mouths we can feed worldwide = 5.5 times the US population.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not aware of anyone claiming that mental illnesses are solely due to genetic factors. I've only seen it claimed that they're due to both probable genetic factors and environment. I read an abridged version of Leo's article in Slate and thought it misrepresented a few things about psychiatry, such as that the foundation for psychiatry using medications to treat psychiatric illnesses is the theory that they're genetically based. Um, what? That doesn't make any sense. We're not talking about gene therapy or whatever, psych drugs tinker around with neurotransmitters that may be going haywire for whatever reason. Whether it's an inherited condition or not is really irrelevant when it comes to psychiatric drugs, or most other medications, and their efficaciousness, unless you're developing medication that targets genes. I am also not aware of anyone claiming that such and such mental illness is caused by one specific gene. This is like how people who deny a possible genetic influence over sexuality point to a specific "gay gene" being found to jump to the ridiculous conclusion that there is no genetic or biological basis for sexual orientation whatsoever. That's just dumb.

This Leo guy is not a psychiatrist, a biologist, geneticist, pharmacologist, or trained in the relevant fields, anyway. He's a neuroanatomist. So I want to know more about the anatomy of the brain, I'll pay attention to him. Otherwise, he's a layman. I also see that he is commonly cited on anti-psychiatry sites, which raises red flags.

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...02/schizophrenia_genes_found_not_so_fast.html

 

[Kueid]

I'm falling at finding the reasons behind this thread.

 

[Burl]

I'm falling at finding the reasons behind this thread.

Like it or not, we're on the road to fixing that.

 

[Nous]

I do what I can.

So, in other words, you're doing nothing "to feed millions of starving people daily". I don't know why not just be honest about that. Due to your lack of comment on the Pimentel findings, I take it we can safely assume that in addition to merely doing nothing, you even continue to support the livestock industry that consumes millions of tons of grain that could be used to nourish hundreds of millions of people.

Doing nothing isn't a good reason to remain indifferent to the suffering caused by the abuses and blatant falsehoods perpetrated by psychiatry and the psychopharmaceutical industry.

 

[Nous]

I live with a paranoid schizophrenic

You spoke of "schizophrenics" (plural) in your previous post.

It isn't appropriate to be speaking of individual personally-known "schizophrenics" (your word) on this thread. Have you done any reading on the topic of genes and mental disorders? Have you done any reading of the peer-reviewed literature on the topic here?

You didn't respond to my question as to how to account for the racial/ethnic disparities in the diagnosis of schizophrenia, as found by Bingham et al. Was that question too difficult?

 

[Nous]

I'm not aware of anyone claiming that mental illnesses are solely due to genetic factors.

That's correct. No one was quoted as making that claim in the OP.

However, it took me about a second just now to find this popular article, written by a PhD and reviewed by a board certified physician, which states, "There is a very strong genetic component to schizophrenia." And "The evidence of a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia is overwhelming." https://www.verywell.com/what-causes-schizophrenia-2953136 I take it you agree that the actual evidence contradicts these claims.

I read an abridged version of Leo's article in Slate and thought it misrepresented a few things about psychiatry, such as that the foundation for psychiatry using medications to treat psychiatric illnesses is the theory that they're genetically based. Um, what? That doesn't make any sense.

You will notice that I quoted his explication of the relationship between "genetic theories and the medicalization of psychological stress":

It is impossible to separate genetic theories from the medicalization of psychological stress. The widespread use of psychiatric medications is based on the idea that schizophrenia and other psychological conditions arise, in part, from genetic defects that result in biological alterations such as reduced levels of neurotransmitters, or deficits in neuronal circuits, that need to be fine-tuned with medications. In general, higher genetic contributions to a disease equate to a stronger case for pharmacological treatment, while diseases with a higher environmental component are seen as better candidates for lifestyle changes and therapy. In 1996, in regards to ADHD, Stephen Faraone, a leading psychiatric genetic researcher, stated: “Many parents are reluctant for their children to take psychotropic medication and others find it difficult to maintain prescribed regimes. These problems are mitigated by discussing the genetic etiology of ADHD…” If parents really believe that their child has a measurable chemical imbalance, then just as they would treat their diabetic child, they would surely treat their child diagnosed with ADHD.​

http://issues.org/32-2/the-search-for-schizophrenia-genes/

What do you claim Leo misrepresented here?

Do you agree with Faraone's statement that Leo quoted? Faraone claims that "the problem" of parents' reluctance to start their children on a regime of psychotropic drugs is "mitigated by discussing the genetic etiology of ADHD"--by which he apparently means fabricating stuff about "the genetic etiology of ADHD".

This Leo guy is not a psychiatrist, a biologist, geneticist, pharmacologist, or trained in the relevant fields, anyway. He's a neuroanatomist. So I want to know more about the anatomy of the brain, I'll pay attention to him. Otherwise, he's a layman.

So you think that neuroanatomy is just unrelated to psychiatry? It is true that no mental disorder listed in the DSM or ICD is either defined or diagnosed on the basis of any neuroanatomical or neurochemical criteria. Yet, one can find all kinds of assertions such as the very first sentence in the above popular article, asserting that "Schizophrenia is an illness of the brain . . ."

A 2010 essay by Dr. Thomas Insel, originally published in Nature and reproduced on the NIMH website, advocates that schizophrenia is a "neurodevelopment disorder": http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/bio/publications/rethinking-schizophrenia.shtml In the process, Dr. Insel also speaks of and advocates genetic studies as a way to "separate cause from effect" in schizophrenia. Do you say that he's is also confused about the (alleged) relationship between psychiatry, neuroanatomy and genes. His article is rather out-of-date on the findings of GWAS in people diagnosed with schizophrenia.

I also see that he is commonly cited on anti-psychiatry sites, which raises red flags

What are the "red flags" about? Can you point out any error in anything "this Leo guy" has stated?

By the way, what is your area of expertise on the topic of genes and mental disorders? Are you qualified to evaluate or comment on scientific studies and the peer-reviewed literature?

How do you account for the racial/ethnic disparities in the diagnosis of schizophrenia, as found by Bingham et al.?

How do you account for the racial/ethnic/cultural patterns of Criterion A symptoms by which schizophrenia is diagnosed, as noted in the McLean et al. study?

 

[Nous]

I'm falling at finding the reasons behind this thread.

Were you ever able to obtain the fortitude to read the OP?

 

[First Baseman]

So, in other words, you're doing nothing "to feed millions of starving people daily". I don't know why not just be honest about that. Due to your lack of comment on the Pimentel findings, I take it we can safely assume that in addition to merely doing nothing, you even continue to support the livestock industry that consumes millions of tons of grain that could be used to nourish hundreds of millions of people.

Doing nothing isn't a good reason to remain indifferent to the suffering caused by the abuses and blatant falsehoods perpetrated by psychiatry and the psychopharmaceutical industry.

No, I didn't say "I do nothing," you said that. I do what I can. I will not brag about what I do because bragging is prohibited and kind of stupid to do, anyway. So we'll leave it at "I do what I can," which is doing something, not nothing.

What really bothers me is that people (scientists, supposedly smart people) are more interested is studying something like this than doing something to actually help people in dire need that desperately need their help. If some scientists can figure out the logistics and finances involved in feeding a million people a day, that would very much interest me. Gene studies, not so much.

 

[Nous]

What really bothers me is that people (scientists, supposedly smart people) are more interested is studying something like this than doing something to actually help people in dire need that desperately need their help.

Studying the genetic associations with mental disorders, or lack thereof, is information that can benefit people. Studying the effectiveness of psychiatric drugs, or lack thereof, and their adverse effects is important information for people to have.

And conducting such studies does not prevent anyone from studying any other matter.

 

[Kueid]

Were you ever able to obtain the fortitude to read the OP?

implying that one is needed.. and that I don't have it.. sooo smart!

Are you able to obtain the fortitude to be prepared to forsake that facade? sooo obvious..

 

[Nous]

implying that one is needed.. and that I don't have it.. sooo smart!

Are you able to obtain the fortitude to be prepared to forsake that facade? sooo obvious..

If you become able to contribute anything to topic of the thread, you are invited to do so.

 

[Burl]

You spoke of "schizophrenics" (plural) in your previous post.

Yes, my position previous to this exposition was in condition for the proposition.

How do you account for the racial/ethnic or cultural patterns in the assessment of Criterion A symptoms, as found by McLean et al. above?

For that matter, how do you account for the racial disparities in the diagnosis of schizophrenia, as found by Bingham et al.? Do you believe that schizophrenia occurs 4 times more often in African Americans and 3 times more often in Hispanic Americans?

My uneducated opinion, unsupported by study, is that there appears to be a bias.

 

[Kueid]

If you become able to contribute anything to topic of the thread, you are invited to do so.

again with that attitude? I'm able all right.. but as I was saying I don't know what you want with the OP. Are you trying to convince anyone in here that there is no mental disorder gene? or there is?

so, what do YOU want? the "ultimate truth" about the existence of such gene? or do you already have it and want to shove down our throat? what is missing about this "topic" that you are referring to that need my contribution?

 

[First Baseman]

Studying the genetic associations with mental disorders, or lack thereof, is information that can benefit people. Studying the effectiveness of psychiatric drugs, or lack thereof, and their adverse effects is important information for people to have.

And conducting such studies does not prevent anyone from studying any other matter.

No, but one must get his priorities straight. This is where I disagree with you.

 

[Burl]

Are you trying to convince anyone in here that there is no mental disorder gene? or there is?

Thankyou for raising that question, Kueid, I admit I was a bit timorous over raising it myself after the OP's behavior, and became hesitant with the concern of contributing to a possible case of IBS.

 

[Kueid]

Thankyou for raising that question, Kueid, I admit I was a bit timorous over raising it myself after the OP's behavior, and became hesitant with the concern of contributing to a possible case of IBS.

you'r welcome.. I thought it was the right time to do so..