The Golden Rule-does it apply to everyone?

[shmogie]

Oh yes of coarse I agree

Yes Sir I have known that all of my life. However I have encountered many folks that feel and behave just as I have described. My favorite is "Have you been saved? I have." I was asked that as a child, I said "Saved from what?" I had no clue. You know how kids can be, I was made fun of because of something I had no clue of. I detest bigotry!!

I can and have done so as well. When your a child and the folks at your local church call you "white trash" and ask where your parents are, that to me is different. I wouldn't call that confirmation bias, I'd call that plan old BIGOTRY. I don't deal in alt-facts I deal in reality. Over the years I've become pretty good at sorting folks out, you know the fakes from the real folks. I have several atheist friends, whom would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it, not one christian friend who would do that unless i was a member of their little club and paid my dues monthly. So I've come up with my on meaning of the word "believer" as they use it.

• They believe in Christ, that he died for our sins.
• They believe if you don't believe as they do, you are wrong and damned to Hell.
• They believe their way is the only way and that the Bible is error free.
• They believe they are better than anyone who does not follow their doctrine.
• They believe if they quote you enough scripture you will see things their way.

Hmmmmm, Not the way I use it, nor the way it should be used. Believers, of all denominations, are part of the universal body of Christ, the true church. They confirm Christ is exactly who he said he was, and they have accepted his salvation. No true believer would ever judge someone else's relationship with God, that is God's responsibility and his alone. We are called sometimes to judge actions, but never the state of someones soul. Christ said " no one can come to the Father but by me ", I believe what He said. I believe the Bible is inerrant, others don't, that is between they and God. I have observed for what it is worth, even in my case once upon a time, that NOT believing the Bible is inerrant makes so much more comfortable to do exactly what you want, though the Book says no. Doctrine cannot and will not save you. Christianity is really pretty simple to understand. Denominations major in minors. Quoting scripture is valueless if someone doesn't want to hear it. Better to simply do your best to be an excellent example of what you believe, scripture received with interest may come later.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

When your a child and the folks at your local church call you "white trash" and ask where your parents are, that to me is different. I wouldn't call that confirmation bias, I'd call that plan old BIGOTRY. I don't deal in alt-facts I deal in reality.

I've never actually been directly insulted like that by Christians... but they certainly have a really good run at insulting one's intelligence with many remarks and statements of "fact" (as they see them), and they are very good at admonishing things they feel you do that are wrong, or things they feel you're not doing that you should be in "roundabout" ways that they can later deny. I absolutely despise the practice - for example, there was one time I was in a congregation that was getting all heated with music playing and people were bouncing all over the place. I was standing stock-still - because bouncing around simply isn't my thing, nor was I feeling anything in particular at that moment. Anyway... the guy leading the "worship" session stops for a minute and states "If you're out there and are able to keep from having the movement of the spirit move your body, you're a better man than I." I knew, absolutely knew he was referring to me... and what a load of crap! He was surreptitiously attacking my refusal to move around and be "taken by the spirit". And framed it up in such a way that he could plausibly deny the less-than-pure intent, if necessary. He didn't like that I wasn't moved like many of the others - he judged me for it so much that he felt he needed to say something - but, being a Christian, he had to keep up appearances. Passive aggressive BS!

I have several atheist friends, whom would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it, not one christian friend who would do that unless i was a member of their little club and paid my dues monthly.

This right here is so, so true. They do outreach, sure... and a lot is done that is good. However, even within the congregations, many times, there is help needed that goes un-given. As an example, I have a very good friend who hails as a Christian, and so has a lot of other Christian friends. He made a post on Facebook that it was looking like he was going to have to drop out of college due to some financial burdens that had come up, and health problems his wife was having that were going to cost as well. Of course, all of his other "friends" gave him nice lip-service, consoling him with replies, and saying they were so sorry to hear it, and that he should "hang in there". Tons of replies... all with the greatest of intentions. I didn't reply to the post. I went directly to IM and asked him how much he felt he'd need to make up the difference per month to stay in school, and then offered it to him on the spot when he came back with a figure. Of course he called me right away, shocked, etc. - we both freaking cried, and that was that. And I've seen it time and time again - outreach being done while there is real need within the congregation itself as well that gets brushed under the rug, ignored, or given the same type of lip service. And I am not saying everyone has the capacity to help everyone else, or every time, nor do I believe anyone is necessarily responsible for anyone/everyone else, etc. But don't speak out of one side of your mouth, calling everyone in the room "family" and then just attempt to ignore problems as they arise that don't fit your agenda. That's not what you'd do for "family". Just don't say that in the first place - and give people the truth about where your relationship stands. They believe in the same "God", say some superficial to nice things to each other every Sunday, and most times that's about it.

 

[JustWondering2]

I've never actually been directly insulted like that by Christians... but they certainly have a really good run at insulting one's intelligence with many remarks and statements of "fact" (as they see them), and they are very good at admonishing things they feel you do that are wrong, or things they feel you're not doing that you should be in "roundabout" ways that they can later deny. I absolutely despise the practice - for example, there was one time I was in a congregation that was getting all heated with music playing and people were bouncing all over the place. I was standing stock-still - because bouncing around simply isn't my thing, nor was I feeling anything in particular at that moment. Anyway... the guy leading the "worship" session stops for a minute and states "If you're out there and are able to keep from having the movement of the spirit move your body, you're a better man than I." I knew, absolutely knew he was referring to me... and what a load of crap! He was surreptitiously attacking my refusal to move around and be "taken by the spirit". And framed it up in such a way that he could plausibly deny the less-than-pure intent, if necessary. He didn't like that I wasn't moved like many of the others - he judged me for it so much that he felt he needed to say something - but, being a Christian, he had to keep up appearances. Passive aggressive BS!



This right here is so, so true. They do outreach, sure... and a lot is done that is good. However, even within the congregations, many times, there is help needed that goes un-given. As an example, I have a very good friend who hails as a Christian, and so has a lot of other Christian friends. He made a post on Facebook that it was looking like he was going to have to drop out of college due to some financial burdens that had come up, and health problems his wife was having that were going to cost as well. Of course, all of his other "friends" gave him nice lip-service, consoling him with replies, and saying they were so sorry to hear it, and that he should "hang in there". Tons of replies... all with the greatest of intentions. I didn't reply to the post. I went directly to IM and asked him how much he felt he'd need to make up the difference per month to stay in school, and then offered it to him on the spot when he came back with a figure. Of course he called me right away, shocked, etc. - we both freaking cried, and that was that. And I've seen it time and time again - outreach being done while there is real need within the congregation itself as well that gets brushed under the rug, ignored, or given the same type of lip service. And I am not saying everyone has the capacity to help everyone else, or every time, nor do I believe anyone is necessarily responsible for anyone/everyone else, etc. But don't speak out of one side of your mouth, calling everyone in the room "family" and then just attempt to ignore problems as they arise that don't fit your agenda. That's not what you'd do for "family". Just don't say that in the first place - and give people the truth about where your relationship stands. They believe in the same "God", say some superficial to nice things to each other every Sunday, and most times that's about it.

 

[JustWondering2]

Wow man I totally agree with what you said here. Plus I think you put it a lot better than I could. What a picture it paints. I was reading what you said, saying yeah...hell yeah I've seen that many time. Thanks for the story, I can tell a great deal of them that are much like what you described. Sometimes things sad in the Chapel never made it out the door kind of thing.

 

[MJFlores]

So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused. My atheist parents beat the Golden Rule into my head. I never heard of this before, sounds a lot like religious bigotry to me.

Just Wondering

Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I hope the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't "sounds a lot like religious bigotry" to you. It is a friendly warning from the Christ to discern every faith, sect, denomination so that a person would not be deceived. In Judgement Day, many will be surprised that they will fail to enter the kingdom of heaven EVEN when they have prophesied in Jesus name, drove out demons in Jesus name and performed many miracles in Jesus name. That is a warning not religious bigotry.

Now going back to your questions about the Golden Rule is it enough? What do you think? The people who gone beyond following the Golden Rule like preaching Jesus on the streets everyday, drove out a thousand demons from possessed people and made signs and wonders all in Jesus name - Jesus said - "I never knew you" - FAILED. How about people following the Golden Rule - "Do not do unto others as you won't others do unto you?" - will the Lord Jesus let you in? When he will kick those preachers, exorcists and miracle performers?

Can You Be Saved by Following the Golden Rule?

Many people are convinced that being a Christian is as simple as doing good deeds for others or following the Golden Rule. What truly makes a person holy in God’s sight?

Does following the Golden Rule automatically make you holy and worthy to be saved on Judgment Day?

Just joined yesterday. I hope you liked the video.
Being saved would really require time of listening
Don't believe the preachers, believe what the bible says through the preachers.
Test them if its there, then ponder about it

 

[JustWondering2]

Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I hope the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't "sounds a lot like religious bigotry" to you. It is a friendly warning from the Christ to discern every faith, sect, denomination so that a person would not be deceived. In Judgement Day, many will be surprised that they will fail to enter the kingdom of heaven EVEN when they have prophesied in Jesus name, drove out demons in Jesus name and performed many miracles in Jesus name. That is a warning not religious bigotry.

Now going back to your questions about the Golden Rule is it enough? What do you think? The people who gone beyond following the Golden Rule like preaching Jesus on the streets everyday, drove out a thousand demons from possessed people and made signs and wonders all in Jesus name - Jesus said - "I never knew you" - FAILED. How about people following the Golden Rule - "Do not do unto others as you won't others do unto you?" - will the Lord Jesus let you in? When he will kick those preachers, exorcists and miracle performers?

Can You Be Saved by Following the Golden Rule?

Many people are convinced that being a Christian is as simple as doing good deeds for others or following the Golden Rule. What truly makes a person holy in God’s sight?

Does following the Golden Rule automatically make you holy and worthy to be saved on Judgment Day?

Just joined yesterday. I hope you liked the video.
Being saved would really require time of listening
Don't believe the preachers, believe what the bible says through the preachers.
Test them if its there, then ponder about it

Please do not quote scriptures or quotes from any book written by man purported to be the perfect word of God considering how many errors there are in any book written by man. I disagree with the propaganda that some religions believe theirs is the only true word of God and all other are wrong. So don't even go there with me unless you have proof your book is the word of God. When you preach to me (quoting any religious book) I feel you are talking down to me, like i should know these verses, so don't even go there. This is exactly what I mean by religious bigotry. You are talking down to me and I do not like it one bit. Since I don't believe the authors of the book, it means little to me short of reiterating what I call common sense. Things you should know without having to be told by some know it all preacher.

 

[MJFlores]

Please do not quote scriptures or quotes from any book written by man purported to be the perfect word of God considering how many errors there are in any book written by man. I disagree with the propaganda that some religions believe theirs is the only true word of God and all other are wrong. So don't even go there with me unless you have proof your book is the word of God. When you preach to me (quoting any religious book) I feel you are talking down to me, like i should know these verses, so don't even go there.

Wow...

 

[JustWondering2]

Wow again with the propaganda! It won't work on me. I've heard it all before.

 

[JustWondering2]

When you started quoting I stop listening, I've read your book several times, I don't need any refreshers. but thanks anyway. Is a bat a bird? Your book says it is? Was the Flintstones a documentary?

 

[MJFlores]

Everything that has wings are birds.
That was it was back then.

Until man said they are rodents.
The bible is not a zoological book.
When you are looking for a duck bill platypus
I'm sorry you won't find it there and that includes cats
Or chickens
Or dolphins
Or pandas
It is not that type of book

It is a survival book, sort of.
It is the power of God for salvation.
What was your question again?

Ah, Golden Rule following it - sure follow it, its good
But it ain't enough for anyone to be in heaven
Oh great, you don't believe in heaven too
Good luck then!

 

[JustWondering2]

Now you are putting words in MY mouth. To clarify I 100% believe in God. I am an astronomer and every time I look up at a clear sky or see a photo taken by Hubble I am amazed and au-struck by what I see and i know in my mind (common sense) there must be a creator God. I just don't put a lot of faith into any of the many man-made books the claim sole sponsorship by God of their particular book. The early Christians copy other earlier religions, just like every other brand of religion did. How can the Jews be God's chosen people if they don't believe Jesus was the messiah? Jews use part 1 of the book, Christians use some of book 1 and added book 2. It is all way too convoluted to me. I'll quote a REAL person for you "Nobody's right, if everybody wrong" Steven Stills 1966 or so. I know he wrote these words, I have no idea who wrote your book that you Love to quote from, neither does anyone else. How about the old saying "If it sounds too good to be true......... ", although I don't know who first said this, I don't have too know. Why you ask? Because it makes good common sense! Driving a stake in the ground next to your herd of sheep with something brightly colored on it will not change anything regarding the sheep, but your book says it will. Common sense or non sense, I choose the later. If I can find 1 or 2 mistakes in your book, how many total are there? If there are that many easily found (common sense) mistakes how can you, me or anyone else trust it to be the inerrant word of God. Wait I can answer my own question, "you just gotta have faith", right? Self fulfilling prophecy. My book is right, see, turn a few pages and it say's it right again. Sorry I don't deal in circular logic! It causes too many system crashes and corrupt memory locations.

 

[JustWondering2]

Ah, Golden Rule following it - sure follow it, its good
But it ain't enough for anyone to be in heaven
Oh great, you don't believe in heaven too
Good luck then!

Opinion only! By the way, like another part of the human anatomy, everybody has one! Prove to me there is a Heaven to go to and that you're way is the only way. I've had 3 NDE all have been about the same. I was surprised to meet someone I felt was a deity and I ask "but wait I was told unless I believe .... I would be damned...". They replied "those are the words of men not of God". I put more faith in my own experiences over goat herder camp fire stories, copied from other religions, past down verbally for generations, before being recorded. But gee that's just me. By the way unlike some of the "Good Christian" I've known in my life, I don't look down on others just because they don't share my views. Nor do I spout that my way is the only way, unlike others. To quote another source "Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend" Justin Hayward 1965.

 

[MJFlores]

Now you are putting words in MY mouth. To clarify I 100% believe in God. I am an astronomer and every time I look up at a clear sky or see a photo taken by Hubble I am amazed and au-struck by what I see and i know in my mind (common sense) there must be a creator God. I just don't put a lot of faith into any of the many man-made books the claim sole sponsorship by God of their particular book. The early Christians copy other earlier religions, just like every other brand of religion did. How can the Jews be God's chosen people if they don't believe Jesus was the messiah? Jews use part 1 of the book, Christians use some of book 1 and added book 2. It is all way too convoluted to me. I'll quote a REAL person for you "Nobody's right, if everybody wrong" Steven Stills 1966 or so. I know he wrote these words, I have no idea who wrote your book that you Love to quote from, neither does anyone else. How about the old saying "If it sounds too good to be true......... ", although I don't know who first said this, I don't have too know. Why you ask? Because it makes good common sense! Driving a stake in the ground next to your herd of sheep with something brightly colored on it will not change anything regarding the sheep, but your book says it will. Common sense or non sense, I choose the later. If I can find 1 or 2 mistakes in your book, how many total are there? If there are that many easily found (common sense) mistakes how can you, me or anyone else trust it to be the inerrant word of God. Wait I can answer my own question, "you just gotta have faith", right? Self fulfilling prophecy. My book is right, see, turn a few pages and it say's it right again. Sorry I don't deal in circular logic! It causes too many system crashes and corrupt memory locations.

Now I find that weird - why do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ on the first place when he is written in the book - the bible. How do you know that the God of Israel is the only true God when he is in the bible. Why not Allah, why not Shiva or Buddha or Odin or Zeus - these gods are not in the Bible.

It is contradictory. What makes sense is either you believe the Bible or not at all. Watching stars like an astronomer could not develop an iota about the teachings of Jesus Christ, would it?

Its good you believe in a creator. But the thing is how can you know him? Watching exoplanets, black holes and monitoring WR 104 if it gives out gamma ray burst? No way Jose! You gotta ask around who he is and try to read about him in the bible like reading an astronomy book.

 

[MJFlores]

Everybody takes baby steps on the bible.
I did when I was 46 years old

 

[JustWondering2]

I'm 64, will be 65 in August. I took baby steps on the bible when I was young. I don't need to take baby steps anymore, after all I am a grown man.

As I said I have read the Bible cover to cover several times. No sir what makes sense is the truth! I put my stock on that. If you believe the Bible in it's present form is the inerrant word of God 100% true, even though it was written by Goat Herders while they wandered the desert. Perhaps they were out in the sun too long? I put little stock in writings written by anyone from 2000 years ago. They thought the Earth was flat and that lightning was from God and many other superstitions. Hey it's a GOOD BOOK, but it is not completely true, it's a guide for life for a bunch of savages living in the desert herding sleep or instructions for domination of man by the church. IMHO I answer to your question, I take no book to be the inerrant word of God. Do you know the meaning of the word "inerrant"? Do you believe the Bible is Inerrant? Free of errors, if you do that explains a lot, the brain washing was successful in your case, not mine. I still have free will and do NOT follow blind faith. Although they were a good super group back in the day, 1970 I think.

 

[JustWondering2]

I put more faith and trust in these words being true, than any story I've ever read from the Bible. It was written in 1966. There is more truth in these few words than I have ever read in the Bible!

Here is the Wiki. Nights in White Satin - Wikipedia

Poem Late Lament:

Breath deep
The gathering gloom
Watch lights fade
From every room
Bedsitter people
Look back and lament
Another day's useless
Energy spent

Empassioned lovers
Wrestle as one
Lonely man cries for love
And has none
New mother picks up
And suckles her son
Senior citizens
Wish they were young

Cold hearted orb
That rules the night
Removes the colours
From our sight
Red is gray and
Yellow white
But we decide
Which is right
And
Which is an Illusion

OK You quoted I quoted, back to the OP you know, the golden rule. I've heard folks say, it applies to everyone, but I have not had that experience with MOST christians I met.
Is it right to treat people differently if they don't pray to the same God as you?

 

[JustWondering2]

OBTW I never said I believed in any Lords! What I said was I believe in a creator God! Read what I try to type.

 

[JustWondering2]

Now I find that weird - why do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ on the first place when he is written in the book - the bible. How do you know that the God of Israel is the only true God when he is in the bible. Why not Allah, why not Shiva or Buddha or Odin or Zeus - these gods are not in the Bible.

It is contradictory. What makes sense is either you believe the Bible or not at all. Watching stars like an astronomer could not develop an iota about the teachings of Jesus Christ, would it?

Its good you believe in a creator. But the thing is how can you know him? Watching exoplanets, black holes and monitoring WR 104 if it gives out gamma ray burst? No way Jose! You gotta ask around who he is and try to read about him in the bible like reading an astronomy book.

Putting words in my mouth again! Stop that!

 

[MJFlores]

I'm 64, will be 65 in August. I took baby steps on the bible when I was young. I don't need to take baby steps anymore, after all I am a grown man.

As I said I have read the Bible cover to cover several times. No sir what makes sense is the truth! I put my stock on that. If you believe the Bible in it's present form is the inerrant word of God 100% true, even though it was written by Goat Herders while they wandered the desert. Perhaps they were out in the sun too long? I put little stock in writings written by anyone from 2000 years ago. They thought the Earth was flat and that lightning was from God and many other superstitions. Hey it's a GOOD BOOK, but it is not completely true, it's a guide for life for a bunch of savages living in the desert herding sleep or instructions for domination of man by the church. IMHO I answer to your question, I take no book to be the inerrant word of God. Do you know the meaning of the word "inerrant"? Do you believe the Bible is Inerrant? Free of errors, if you do that explains a lot, the brain washing was successful in your case, not mine. I still have free will and do NOT follow blind faith. Although they were a good super group back in the day, 1970 I think.

My faith ain't blind. If it is I would be blabbering something which both of us won't understand. My father would turn 79 on August - so you share the same birth month.

If there are errors - what are they? You know that it is not good to have one translation of the bible but plenty to ferret the truth out.

 

[SpiritQuest]

The golden rule can be described as an expression of the most fundamental law of reality, the law of cause and effect. Every-thing in reality is connected with all the other things in reality. We are all connected. As you do unto others, so you do unto yourself.