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Featured The family: a proclamation to the world

Discussion in 'Religious News' started by robocop (actually), Jun 3, 2022.

  1. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    three years re-baptized into Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!
    So I have in no way acted up to the standards that I shouldn't be judged for bad posts but this seems like a really important thing to post anyway.

    This is out of 1995 and many people are discussing this now; so here you go and thank you for reading:

    The Family

    A Proclamation to the World

    The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

    All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

    In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

    The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

    We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.

    Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalm 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, and to teach them to love and serve one another, observe the commandments of God, and be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

    The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

    We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

    We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

    This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
     
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  2. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    I would resume my feeling about this letter with a simple "yuk".
     
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  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I still enjoy the offensive nuclear family.


     
  4. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    three years re-baptized into Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!
    It's important to have a sense of humor.
     
  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I actually think the decay of the nucular family contributed a lot to what we see today.
     
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  6. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    And sociology agrees. Every major measure of well-being in a society is improved in groups with high levels of stable families vs those without.
     
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  7. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    It’s a deep dive into some less than popular doctrines. My guess is that <5% of people hear agree with the core concepts.


    I can’t figure a way to set up a poll oh well.
     
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  8. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Except that's not a recipe for stable families. That's literally a recipe that was tried before and it wasn't good as what we have now in most of the developed world.
     
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  9. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    What is not?
     
  10. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Wow, it started off bad by limiting two parent relationships to a man and a woman then quickly hit rock bottom with this.

    Talk about selfish religious leaders that know they have little hope of persuading the non-indoctrinated and their propensity for encouraging their followers to overpopulate the earth so they can maintain their grip on control of the populace.

    In my opinion.
     
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  11. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    1. the earth is nowhere near over populated (10 billion for dinner 1994). We could actually put everyone in Alaska. Granted it would be kind of crowed but no as crowded as some cities are now.

    2. I don’t see reason for the control accusation. The leaders who wrote this had about 15 million people listening to them. Hardly the wide scale control you comment suggests.
     
  12. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    The biggest red flag in this is basically shamming all forms of sexual intercourse and especially children born out of wedlock, a social problems that was eradicated over a century ago which condemned many children to poverty.

    Then there is the spiel about heteronormativity which basically deny the legitimacy and existence of homosexual couples and parents which is also a terrible thing that profoundly harmed society.

    Then there is retched portion discussing strict gender roles and male headship which was a recipe for domestic violence, women's oppression and financial dependance and ruin. Only a small minority of women long to return to their former chains and even then, some will only say so to gain social standing within extremely conservative social circles all the while keeping the protection that the feminist revolution brought them at the same time.

    Everybody wants strong, stable, loving families, but there is no magic recipe for it ad you certainly won't find it within the pages of holy books like the Bible. Absolute levels of child abuse and domestic violence are down. recognizing the rights of children and women as equal to men have helped reduce these events. Sure divorces are happening, but this is only a symptom of broken homes not a cause. That's one of the big error (or lie in some cases) of preacher like this. They confuse a symptom of the disease for the disease itself.
     
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  13. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    three years re-baptized into Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!
    Science soon afterward said that lesbian couples raise children better, but not male homosexuals.
    Couples can have sex for pleasure and to show that they love each other.
    Yes men and women have different roles. The document specifically condemns spousal abuse.
    Marriages have actually been going up; the nuclear family is important.
     
  14. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    1. The social problems from fatherless homes has not been fixed. Denied and ignored by some, but not fixed. Research suggests that much of the 1 Trillion a year we spend treating trauma related medical issues would go away if we had stable families.

    2. How does stating the position that having kids bad? This does not deny homosexuality it does set for a religious belief that God asks for something else. Worth noting is that muc of this is based on a deep belief in families lasting beyond this life. While not in this document there are others from the same folks expressing love and acceptance of person with homosexual attraction etc.

    3.If you read carefully on gender roles you will note statements about help, equal partner and adapting if needed. None of that is a “ recipe for domestic violence” Just in case there is a warning “We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God”. Now for the die hard atheist they may not care, but anyone who believes in God tends to not want to upset him. There is nothing here promoting chains or abuse. Traditional lifestyles that some reject yes, but not abuse.

    4. broken homes are complex. Abuse is a cause that needs to be fixed by people not abusing. (Therapy helps). The “I fell out of love… he leaves his socks on the floor… I wanted an affair…” etc. excuses are not cussed by abuse. It is largely laziness and lust. These issues need to be addressed and the suggested items of “faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities.”. Looks like recipe for safe and stable families.

    obviously just giving lip service to such items fixes nothing but if families live that way we would have a lot less hurt.
     
  15. Veyl

    Veyl Member

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    Families are acceptable as long as one knows their place. Their role should never eclipse that of liberation for individuals, and too much attention to them can embed the mind in the material world and its physical relationships. Nevertheless, the main questionable part of this is the idea of sexual relationships being involved (i.e., between spouses). I don't know if it's moral to expose children to that kind of behavior. If anything, it may be better for friends to raise offspring together and instill true values.
     
  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    So you think the only challenge is fitting the people on the planet? No mention of feeding them, clothing them, providing for them an adequate standard of living, or even of the desire of many to have a comfortable standard of living? No mention of the impact all those people have on the environment which sustains human life?

    I have lived in both units and freestanding houses. In units when one person makes a disturbance everyone is kept awake - which is bad for health. It is lilke that song, "I got problems now everybody on my blocks got 'em". In houses when someone creates a ruckus there is enough space to provide relief for most neighbours most of the time.

    If having control of 15 million people is not a "wide" scale of control, expecially when you add all the catholics that listen to the pope and other religions who listen to their favourite clergy etc then can we at least agree that the term "wide" is a relative subjective term?

    In my opinion.
     
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  17. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    on the plus side the research in the article you clearly did not read covers food and such. We are good for many billions more.

    mom the control issue. The ability to influence millions is a small number compared to the average super star or governor. So it’s not like a major control system.
     
  18. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    If you provided a link to an article in your post I'm afraid I missed it.
    When we have 9.9% of our current population going hungry I don't know how you can say that.

    Was there a typo in that?

    How many do you think the Pope can influence? Also the difference being that governors are necessary, religious leaders probably not.

    In my opinion.
     
  19. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    Mom should be on sorry fat thumbs.

    Used to be a quick google search. I found a few dozen references to it, but not the whole thing 10 billion for dinner please. | Semantic Scholar

    Yes typo should have be On.

    The Pope has nearly a billion followers last I looked. Islam has a similar number of adherents. Cristiano Ronaldo has about 200 million. So if you panic is that these religious leaders are influacing too many people I'd not panic too much.

    Source: How Many Followers Do Celebrities Have in 2022? | InstaFollowers (How Many Followers Do Celebrities Have in 2022? | InstaFollowers)




    Good influence reduces human suffering. Governs in the US abused their people in mass during covid. They have an important job to do and many get messed up and mistreat others.
     
  20. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. The article looks interesting, although it doesn't cite the scientific studies it refers to, neither does it appear to address some of the questions I raised.

    That being said here are some preliminary thoughts on the article given that I'm pressed for time.

    -It is reffering to feeding 10 billion, if each couple had 6 to 7 children (i personally know a JW couple that have 14) how long do you think it would take to easily get to 20 or 30 billion?

    -The article states, 'The real threat is not that the earth will run out of land topsoil or water but that nations will fail to pursue the economic trade and research policies that can increase the production of food and limit environmental damage.'
    So isn't it putting the cart ahead of the horse to say let's reproduce first and solve present problems later? Shouldn't we persuade the governments to pursue the relevant policies first then reproduce when the present problems are solved?

    - again from your article, 'Malnutrition afflicts 700 million people because poor nations do not have enough money to buy food.' Given that you are opposed to mandatory redistribution of wealth and Christianity has failed over the past 2000 years to adequately redistribute wealth shouldn't we solve the present hunger problems before adding more mouths to feed?

    True, and Christianity has certainly been a mixed bag in the extent to which it reduces or increases suffering.

    No they didn't (note my use of hitches razor applied to your empty claim)

    In my opinion
     
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