The debate of Welfare - good or bad?

[nnmartin]

carrying on in the same general vein I would like to discuss Welfare now.

Is is good or bad for society, necessary or not needed?

some people prefer the idea of private charity, a reduced minimum wage (to increase employment) , higher levels of welfare or just its abolition entirely.

what is your view?

I am generally talking about benefits related to unemployment and low incomes here.

does Welfare really hold the economy back and stop people from trying?

Personally, I think Welfare is needed to avoid exploitation and is a good thing.

so let's see......

 

[fallingblood]

I think welfare is also good. When it comes to a family, who works as much as they can, and they still can only scrap by, I think they deserve the help. When it comes to children, who really have no choice, I think they deserve the help, and shouldn't be punished for something out of their hands. Welfare does help.

 

[nnmartin]

ok, I agree with that.

but how about those with no family - say a single man who is out of work and cannot find a job - what then?

 

[fallingblood]

ok, I agree with that.

but how about those with no family - say a single man who is out of work and cannot find a job - what then?

As long as he is trying, I think it's fine to help him.

 

[Viker]

It's a good idea with a lot of baggage and wiggly room. If someone is genuinely down and out and has even demonstrated consistent effort for themselves it doesn't hurt to give them some relief.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

The general welfare is one the foundation of society, but that doesn't mean you let others leech off others who work.

Sometimes people fall through the cracks and they need help, but there is a class of people who just don't want help but just leech off of people. I am not talking about your average panhandler, atleast panhandlers are working but people who do absolutely nothing but try to be con artists and parasites...somewhat like Dick Cheney.

Both rich and poor can fall into this class of parasite, they will use every means to aviod betterment or work, which I find sad.

 

[ChristineES]

I think welfare is also good. When it comes to a family, who works as much as they can, and they still can only scrap by, I think they deserve the help. When it comes to children, who really have no choice, I think they deserve the help, and shouldn't be punished for something out of their hands. Welfare does help.

I agree with that.

If we take the time to find out who is on welfare who is perfectly able to work and has no small children, and only give it to those who actually need it, it would be a lot better for the whole society.

 

[nnmartin]

that sounds like a good idea but seems to be hard to enforce in reality.

How can you really stop someone who is 'pretending' to be looking for work but is actually just staying home with the TV and a few six packs?

 

[Viker]

that sounds like a good idea but seems to be hard to enforce in reality.

How can you really stop someone who is 'pretending' to be looking for work but is actually just staying home with the TV and a few six packs?

Put their face on TV and on beer cans with a caption reading "Have you seen me looking for work lately? "

 

[ChristineES]

that sounds like a good idea but seems to be hard to enforce in reality.

How can you really stop someone who is 'pretending' to be looking for work but is actually just staying home with the TV and a few six packs?

True enough, but I certainly wish that could be done.

 

[fallingblood]

that sounds like a good idea but seems to be hard to enforce in reality.

How can you really stop someone who is 'pretending' to be looking for work but is actually just staying home with the TV and a few six packs?

A few people will slip through and be able to work the system. However, they are few and far in between. I don't think that the vast majority should be punished by the few.

 

[nnmartin]

I agree , that is true.

Usually the small percentage of shirkers are used as justification for any kind of benefit cut to everyone.

Most of the people I have met that are out of work would most certainly take up the offer of a realistic job if given the chance.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

If people truly need welfare, then we need to provide it. To provide it to those who truly need it, we need to create ways to monitor those who need it to see that they are actively seeking to improve their sittuation, if they are, then the government should help, if they aren't, then the government doesn't help. But individuals can help everyone indiscriminantly.

 

[nnmartin]

what do people think of the idea of private welfare schemes, charities and the like?

(instead of govt. welfare)

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It's unfortunate that any system will get 'gamed' by people; we cannot get rid of scammers. But to make the system as foolproof as possible, is all that can be done.

Unless we want families starving in our streets we need something of this type. Accept that there will be some waste. But to dismantle the system simply because it's not flawless is a bad idea.

 

[nnmartin]

of course, welfare is actually a system that maintains the status quo.

It is needed to keep the hungry masses at bay, rather like giving the dog a bone.

It is good to have it for sure, but the it's the system itself that forces people to claim it due to the need for a surplus labour supply.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

A few people will slip through and be able to work the system. However, they are few and far in between. I don't think that the vast majority should be punished by the few.

Do you realize that their are whole corporation sucking off the government teat?

It is not just a few either.

 

[fallingblood]

Do you realize that their are whole corporation sucking off the government teat?

It is not just a few either.

Should we just eradicate all welfare then and punished millions of people who need it, and their children, who would otherwise suffer?

 

[Mathematician]

Do you realize that their are whole corporation sucking off the government teat?

It is not just a few either.

According to every indicator it's far less than 5%*. The site I link to argues that it hovers around 2%. The government employs and contracts people to investigate fraud. Yeah there's always the "Welfare Queen" who is brought to light a few times a decade, but there's frauds everywhere.

* How Bad Is Welfare Fraud in the USA? « Spritzophrenia

Depending on how your point of view, some leniency is a good thing. I'd rather less people starve than have a tighter belt where people who need help aren't getting it. That's how we view criminal justice (it's better for a guilty person to get off than put an innocent man in jail), so I think the principle is American.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Should we just eradicate all welfare then and punished millions of people who need it, and their children, who would otherwise suffer?

Why should I subsidize corporations? Poor people I can see helping them but corps?