the continual loop

[robtex]

If God is purposeful than he would be evident
If God was evident than he would be purposeful.
If God is omnipresent there would be no bounderies to his ablity to be evident or purposeful


Are these statements true? If they are I would contend they create a continual loop that shows a fault in the exitance of a purposeful God. The fault being

1) God is not evident to all (aka omni-evident). A rationalization in older and modern times is that God chooses those who he wishes to share his vision with. Understand though that these "visionaries" of God become apologetics almost without fail and as such share their vision with those God has no intention of showing his vision to. But that which is concieved is omnipresent cannot be something other than omni-evident.

2) God is not purposeful : with the mystery still unsolved of why is there diasters like the recent earthquakes and tsunamis as well as the many good things from day to day it is hard to find a pattern going in any one direction. With thousands of religions and many of those having scores or in the case of christianity thousands of sects within in it even the "chosen" have no clear consensus on Gods purpose.

If one finds mystery in either God evidence or his purpose it creates a continual loop where there is no exit ramp to.

Question: How can a God that is not equally unevidencable by all be concieved as purposeful and how can a God without a clearly defined purpose be seen as clearly evidencable? What is the way out of this loop?

 

[michel]

Are these statements true? If they are I would contend they create a continual loop that shows a fault in the exitance of a purposeful God. The fault being

1) God is not evident to all (aka omni-evident). A rationalization in older and modern times is that God chooses those who he wishes to share his vision with. Understand though that these "visionaries" of God become apologetics almost without fail and as such share their vision with those God has no intention of showing his vision to. But that which is concieved is omnipresent cannot be something other than omni-evident.

2) God is not purposeful : with the mystery still unsolved of why is there diasters like the recent earthquakes and tsunamis as well as the many good things from day to day it is hard to find a pattern going in any one direction. With thousands of religions and many of those having scores or in the case of christianity thousands of sects within in it even the "chosen" have no clear consensus on Gods purpose.

If one finds mystery in either God evidence or his purpose it creates a continual loop where there is no exit ramp to.

Question: How can a God that is not equally unevidencable by all be concieved as purposeful and how can a God without a clearly defined purpose be seen as clearly evidencable? What is the way out of this loop?

Rob, this isn't one for a nice quiet Saturday afternoon, but hey!

If God is purposeful than he would be evident
If God was evident than he would be purposeful.
If God is omnipresent there would be no bounderies to his ablity to be evident or purposeful

Why is that necessarily so ? could he not be evident but not to us, with our human limitations ?
I disagree; a mountain is evident, but it is not purposeful
I'll go along with the last statement

I must be being dense, but I can't see a 'loop'.

 

[cardero]

Robtex, different people see God in different ways, which is how I believe God would express itself if God existed. Some people see God evidenced through nature, some people through statues, idols, symbols, icons and dare I say underpasses. Some people see God in other people, friends and relatives who have influenced them in their purpose. I think it is a consideration of where you are looking and what it is someone would do with this evidence to decipher what God’s purpose is in their lives.

Sometimes when I take walks in my neighborhood and I notice all the houses and all the people who live in them and I realize that I do not know these people, I haven’t seen them, I haven’t gotten to know them. Yet each individual (or individuals) may exist and have their own purpose that is far and away removed from mine. These people also may never cross my awareness or my existence yet they are only right down the road from me. There are millions of entities who share my existence yet I have no evidence of their purpose and how they relate to my existence.

The only way out of this loop is to determine if we want to know God (or his purpose) and exactly what type of relationship, if any, do we want to have with God. The evidence may be there but do you want to find this evidence and once this evidence is found what would you do with it?

 

[TheHeretic]

This is a logic puzzle. Its great for blowing peoples minds. Forcing us to think in a certain way, its hard to counter, but not nessecarily valid to real life.

I have 2 [you have probably heard this before, but I will post it anyway], but only one is religious... so...

Evil:

If God is willing to remove evil from the world but not able then is not omnipotent
If God is not willing to remove evil from the world, but is able, then he is malevolent
If God is able and willing to remove evil from the world, then why does evil exist?
If God is neither able nor willing to remove evil from the world, then why call him God?

The trick here is that God works in mysterious ways, and short term evil can end up being a benefil in the long term.

Interesting, never-the-less