The Caste System

[Fireside_Hindu]

YAY its even scripturaly accepted! Lol. And the overall idea stays the same. Different stages require different bodies. So at one stage you may be better off being one type of person but another may be needes later.

This is an interesting idea. I think there's nothing wrong with it. The only danger is that it should never be used to treat someone less respectfully than anyone else regardless of their stage. After all, we will all go through all the stages eventually.

:camp:

 

[Vinayaka]

This is an interesting idea. I think there's nothing wrong with it. The only danger is that it should never be used to treat someone less respectfully than anyone else regardless of their stage. After all, we will all go through all the stages eventually.

:camp:

In Saiva Siddhanta there is tremendous overlap of stages. The jnani still does charya, bhakti, and yoga. The essential difference between Saiva Siddhanta and Advaita Vedanta is focus. In SS, the bhakti marga is huge. The 63 Nayanars were all bhaktars. So it;s not strictly stages, but more like grade school, where grade 3 includes 30% of a repeat of what was in Grade 2, a lot of 'Grade 4' and touches on Grade 5 material.

Without bhakti, I am lost.

 

[Kalidas]

FH:Of course not! I detest the idea of looking down on someone just because of the situation they were born into. Maybe because I was born dirt poor so I know the feeling.

Vinayaka: I really that grade school anology.

 

[Vinayaka]

FH:Of course not! I detest the idea of looking down on someone just because of the situation they were born into. Maybe because I was born dirt poor so I know the feeling.

Vinayaka: I really that grade school anology.

Does the high school grad look down on the kindergarten child?
I think it's a great mistake to compare yourself to others. It reeks of insecurity.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Without bhakti, I am lost.

You and me both!

:camp:

 

[Aupmanyav]

FH: Of course not! I detest the idea of looking down on someone just because of the situation they were born into.

It is an anathema to Hinduism, though it is practiced (and interpolated in Manusmriti).

 

[Northern Lights]

I believe the caste system is inherently wrong. Getting a 'badge' at birth that limits your potential, regardless of the skills and abilities you go on to develop and show.

As I understand it, the Caste system is an Indian secular phenomenan, rather than being an inherent part of Hinduism?

.... hence my giving my viewpoint above, whilst respecting that this is the Hinduism DIR.

We have a similar system in place here in the UK but it is less formally entrenched - but just as fixitive and stubborn in it's effects.

Eg... Working class people can find it harder to get into establishments such as the esteemed Top 3 universities, even where there academic achievements are just as high as middle class people.

My sister is currently undertaking a PhD on this very subject. "Effect of perceived class, aside performance, on acceptance to high performing Universities"

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

We have a similar system in place here in the UK but it is less formally entrenched - but just as fixitive and stubborn in it's effects.

Eg... Working class people can find it harder to get into establishments such as the esteemed Top 3 universities, even where there academic achievements are just as high as middle class people.

Thank you for your comment. I was mentioning above the existence of an un-named "Caste System" in the united states. It is much farther reaching then many want to admit.

:camp:

 

[Kalidas]

Thank you for your comment. I was mentioning above the existence of an un-named "Caste System" in the united states. It is much farther reaching then many want to admit.

:camp:

It does exist

 

[Aupmanyav]

As I understand it, the Caste system is an Indian secular phenomenon, rather than being an inherent part of Hinduism?

You see, in olden times in India (I am talking of middle ages), very few people were rich, but even the poor people had enough for their needs. Most villages were self-sufficient and their needs were few. The rich included some, and not all, of the warrior caste (kings and their relatives) and some traders. So, it was not a question of getting more riches. It was more about being satisfied with what came to one as his traditional profession. There was not much education around except brahmins learning Sanskrit and memorizing scriptures, which was the task given to them by the society. Even kings till late did not have any education and used seals to indicate their consent. A Jodhpur king (I am from that place) used to put his seal saying 'Sahi chhe' ('it is correct', rather than signing an order). That was what caste meant to us, and the teaching was that even if one was born as a 'shudra', one need not dispair. Performing his duties, even a shudra could attain nirvana and union with God. We have hundreds of Saints who belonged to the 'shudra' castes (including the most important of them, Sage Vedavyasa, who practically wrote all scriptures of Hinduism - compiled the four Vedas, wrote Brahmasutras, Mahabharata, and eighteen Puranas including SrimadBhagawatham).

 

[Northern Lights]

You see, in olden times in India (I am talking of middle ages), very few people were rich, but even the poor people had enough for their needs. Most villages were self-sufficient and there needs were few. The rich included some, and not all, of the warrior caste (kings and their relatives) and some traders. So, it was not a question of getting more riches. It was more about being satisfied with what came to one as his traditional profession. There was not much education around except brahmins learning Sanskrit and memorizing scriptures, which was the task given to them by the society. Even kings till late did not have any education and used seals to indicate their consent. A Jodhpur king (I am from that place) used to put his seal saying 'Sahi chhe' ('it is correct', rather than signing an order). That was what caste meant to us, and the teaching was that even if one was born as a 'shudra', one need not dispair. Performing his duties, even a shudra could attain nirvana and union with God. We have hundreds of Saints who belonged to the 'shudra' castes (including the most important of them, Sage Vedavyasa, who practically wrote all scriptures of Hinduism - compiled the four Vedas, wrote Brahmasutras, Mahabharata, and eighteen Puranas including SrimadBhagawatham).

Very interesting, thank you for that. It is fascinating to know the history of the caste system, and even, in the first 20 pages of the Bhagavad Gita (which I only recently read for the first time), I can see Krishna talking of the role or work that one was born into, that one must undertake. The problem is, when you translate that caste syste to the modern era of gross materialism and huge wealth gap, well..... it just doesn't work (in my opinion). It reinforces and protects the privilieged and rich and prevents the poor from getting a fair crack at the system, even where their abilities are exceptional.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, it did not work, and we are serious about eradicating it. It has opened gates for a vast reservoir of talent for India. It has a few more years to go. After all, India has a huge population. I think castes would still remain, Surnames, for marriage purposes, but the discrimination would be gone.

 

[Northern Lights]

That sounds great. I guess in an ideal world we should take the best of every concept and system, and reject the worst of them.

Thanks again Aupmanyav.