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The Book of Mormon & Preemptive War

jonny

Well-Known Member
Is there anywhere in the Book of Mormon where preemptive war is condoned? I can think of a few passages where it is forbidden and where war is only justified to defend your family and land.

I really think that we were duped and manipulated into supporting the war in Iraq, and I don't believe that Latter-day Saints should have supported what the government called a "preemptive" war. Anyone disagree?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Is there anywhere in the Book of Mormon where preemptive war is condoned? I can think of a few passages where it is forbidden and where war is only justified to defend your family and land.

I really think that we were duped and manipulated into supporting the war in Iraq, and I don't believe that Latter-day Saints should have supported what the government called a "preemptive" war. Anyone disagree?
Not I. Of course Bush would say we "attacked" in defense, but I think time has proven that to be nonsense.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Johnster, you're focusing on the BoM, but would you consider other scriptures from the standard works?
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Give me what you've got. I'm curious about the Book of Mormon since it seems to speak most specifically on the subject, but scripture is scripture.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
I'll need to do further research, but it seems there may have been some preemptive attacks in the OT.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
We went through that struggle in our home over the decision to invade Irag, when it first happened. So we were anxious to hear what Pres. Hinckley would say at Gen. Conf. shortly after. His words seemed to support what Pres. Bush did.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
We went through that struggle in our home over the decision to invade Irag, when it first happened. So we were anxious to hear what Pres. Hinckley would say at Gen. Conf. shortly after. His words seemed to support what Pres. Bush did.

Seemed to support it, or did Starfish?

Which is it, He either did or didn't.

Besides, Church members can have opinions on politics that aren't the same as their leaders and it still makes them good church members.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
We went through that struggle in our home over the decision to invade Irag, when it first happened. So we were anxious to hear what Pres. Hinckley would say at Gen. Conf. shortly after. His words seemed to support what Pres. Bush did.
I think a lot of people, both LDS and otherwise, supported Bush's decision at first, particularly when we all believed that WMD would be found. The problem is, we were lied to. Neither President Hinckley nor the rest of us knew that at the time.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
We went through that struggle in our home over the decision to invade Irag, when it first happened. So we were anxious to hear what Pres. Hinckley would say at Gen. Conf. shortly after. His words seemed to support what Pres. Bush did.

I don't think I would consider this "support."

President Hinckley said:
But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace”

War and Peace

There was also a very anti-war speech that he gave at BYU. I'm looking for the rest of this.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Here's the speech:

I have stood at the tomb of Napoleon in Paris, at the tomb of Lenin in Moscow, and before the burial places of many others of the mighty leaders of the earth. In their time they commanded armies, they ruled with near omnipotence, and their very words brought terror into the hearts of people.


I have reverently walked through some of the great cemeteries of the world. I have reflected quietly and thoughtfully as I have stood in the military cemetery in Manila in the Philippines. There, laid out in perfect symmetry, are marble crosses marking the graves of 17,000 Americans who gave their lives in the Second World War. Encircling this burial ground are beautiful marble colonnades, where are remembered another 35,000 who died in the terrible battles of the Pacific and whose remains were never found.


I have walked with reverence through the British cemetery on the outskirts of Rangoon, Burma (now known as Myanmar), and noted the names of hundreds and thousands of young men who came from the villages, towns, and great cities of the British Isles and who gave their lives in hot and distant places. I have strolled through old cemeteries in Asia and Europe and yet other places, and I have reflected on the lives of those who were once buoyant and happy, who were creative and distinguished, who gave much to the world in which they lived. They have all passed into the darkness of the grave.


All who have lived upon the earth before us are now gone. They have left all behind as they have stepped over the threshold of silent death. As I have visited these various cemeteries I have reflected, first, on the terrible cost of war. What a fruitless thing it so often is, and what a terrible price it exacts.


I have thought further of the oblivion of the grave. What would we do without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, our Savior and our Redeemer? He has given us the assurance that life goes on beyond the veil, that it is purposeful and productive, and that each of us shall go on living after we depart this life.

Experiences Worth Remembering - Gordon B. Hinckley
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
I don't think I ever supported the Iraq war. I wasn't aware of the degree we were lied to about 911/Iraq War. BUt after all I researched I don't think anything could come out of his mouth that was th truth. He was either lying or mispronouncing words. Maybe he was telling the truth whenever he mispronounced words.

I'm currious what other LDS think. Is it possible to be a warrior and not support war?
 

Orontes

Master of the Horse
Is there anywhere in the Book of Mormon where preemptive war is condoned? I can think of a few passages where it is forbidden and where war is only justified to defend your family and land.


If you consider the Book of Mormon to indicate the Revolutionary War and then condone it, then that is one simple example of a justified preemptive war. If you look at the Old Testament and the Israelite invasion and genocide of Canaan(ites) that would be another.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
Seemed to support it, or did Starfish?

Which is it, He either did or didn't.

Besides, Church members can have opinions on politics that aren't the same as their leaders and it still makes them good church members.

Please don't assume the worst. I didn't want the war anymore than anyone else. Here is what Pres. Hinckley said. You decide. (General Conference, Sun. morning session, Apr. 2003)

"It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.
When all is said and done, we of this Church are people of peace. We are followers of our Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ, who was the Prince of Peace. But even He said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34).
This places us in the position of those who long for peace, who teach peace, who work for peace, but who also are citizens of nations and are subject to the laws of our governments. Furthermore, we are a freedom-loving people, committed to the defense of liberty wherever it is in jeopardy. I believe that God will not hold men and women in uniform responsible as agents of their government in carrying forward that which they are legally obligated to do. It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression."
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
I do not believe Pres. Bush lied. Yes we were lied to--by Saddam Hussein. This came out clearly in the interviews he gave after his arrest. He didn't want Iran to know he had no WMDs, so he led the world to believe he had them. Legally, the U.S. had a right to invade; morally, I don't know.
I think Pres. Bush acted on the information he had, and that information was wrong.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
I do not believe Pres. Bush lied. Yes we were lied to--by Saddam Hussein. This came out clearly in the interviews he gave after his arrest. He didn't want Iran to know he had no WMDs, so he led the world to believe he had them. Legally, the U.S. had a right to invade; morally, I don't know.
I think Pres. Bush acted on the information he had, and that information was wrong.

I don't know if I'd say he lied. I think we were manipulated into fearing the worse and supporting something that goes completely against what our country stands for. We shouldn't be STARTING wars.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
If you consider the Book of Mormon to indicate the Revolutionary War and then condone it, then that is one simply example of a justified preemptive war. If you look at the Old Testament and the Israelite invasion and genocide of Canaan(ites) that would be another.

I think the difference between the Revolutionary War and the Iraq War is that in the Revolutionary War the people were defending THEIR land. They didn't go over to England and start a war in someone else's country.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
I think the difference between the Revolutionary War and the Iraq War is that in the Revolutionary War the people were defending THEIR land. They didn't go over to England and start a war in someone else's country.

But was it THEIR land or Englands?;)
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
I do not believe Pres. Bush lied. Yes we were lied to--by Saddam Hussein. This came out clearly in the interviews he gave after his arrest. He didn't want Iran to know he had no WMDs, so he led the world to believe he had them. Legally, the U.S. had a right to invade; morally, I don't know.
I think Pres. Bush acted on the information he had, and that information was wrong.


Yes we were.

Why was the reason we went into Iraq? WMD.

Found any? No.

Change the reason (how convenient:rolleyes:) and we are still there - see a problem with that?
 
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