The Apostolic Johannite Church

[Parzival]

Is anybody familiar with this church (http://www.johannite.org/)?They certainly seem to have an interesting interpretation of things.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Never heard of it but it seems like an interesting site. I'll have to plow through it later. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

 

[Brother Scott]

Hi T.E!

Obviously, I'm familiar with this church. We talked a bit off forum.

For everyone else, I've been a member of the Apostolic Johannite Church since 2005, and of the clergy since 2006. I'm on the Apostolic Council (sort of our Board of Directors).

We're a church which accepts apostolic succession, so we have a Patriarch who is the head, and regional bishops who are in charge of smaller geographic areas, as far as administration goes. As the name implies, we trace our lineage through St. John rather than St. Peter as the Roman Catholic Church does. We make no claims as to the historicity of this lineage, rather it is a mythological one, much like Rome's.

We view ourselves as part of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. As such, we don't try to gain converts. We feel we have a unique way of looking at Christianity, but that it's not the sole way. Our way has an appeal for some, and it's those we try to help with our organization.

We are an inclusive, esoteric, gnostic, Christian Church. Inclusive meaning, we do not discriminate in any of the usual ways as to who can hold a church office. Those who are willing to do the work and make the commitment are welcome. Those who are not willing to do the work or make the commitment self-select out.

Esoteric: Ideas preserved by a small group or those specially initiated; from the Greek esoterikos, a compound of eso “within,” thus the more inward and mystically oriented. Esoteric is distinguished from Exoteric, which refers to that which can be understood by all. Many faiths and schools have both an Exoteric (outer) and an Esoteric (inner) form. In our context, it means that we ascribe an experiential reality to the church and its sacraments beyond the ceremonial and symbolic.

Gnostic: we are a religious tradition that stresses mysticism, personal responsibilty, revelation, and practical philosophy. We are saved from Ignorance and Deception through Knowledge (gnosis) of our own Divine origin and nature. We revere and take inspiration from scripture, including and not limited to the Corpus Hermeticum and the Nag Hammadi library.

Christian: Respect for the Christian Tradition, and all Traditions of faith, is central to the Apostolic Johannite identity. We tend to use the language of Christianity to access the Divine, but it is by no means the only language we use. We trace our lineage from St. John, the beloved apostle of Christ, through his bishops and the Knights Templar, down to the present day.

I hope that's a start.

 

[Parzival]

Hi T.E!

Obviously, I'm familiar with this church. We talked a bit off forum.

Brother Scott, it is certainly nice to run into you here! I very much look forward to meeting you in person one day soon. Thank you for coming and giving a brief explanation. I know I appreciate it, and I'm sure other do/will also.

We feel we have a unique way of looking at Christianity, but that it's not the sole way. Our way has an appeal for some, and it's those we try to help with our organization.

This has to be, I think, one of the most beautiful ideas I can imagine.

Gnostic: we are a religious tradition that stresses mysticism, personal responsibilty, revelation, and practical philosophy. We are saved from Ignorance and Deception through Knowledge (gnosis) of our own Divine origin and nature. We revere and take inspiration from scripture, including and not limited to the Corpus Hermeticum and the Nag Hammadi library.

Beautiful. I personally find the Hermetic texts to be some of the most deeply profound sacred texts I have yet to read.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

We're a church which accepts apostolic succession, so we have a Patriarch who is the head, and regional bishops who are in charge of smaller geographic areas, as far as administration goes. As the name implies, we trace our lineage through St. John rather than St. Peter as the Roman Catholic Church does. We make no claims as to the historicity of this lineage, rather it is a mythological one, much like Rome's.

Interesting.

So your bishop isn't a heresiarch from traditional lineages, only apostolic 'in the spirit of' or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Brother Scott]

So your bishop isn't a heresiarch from traditional lineages, only apostolic 'in the spirit of' or am I reading this wrong?

I'm afraid you'll have to explain more, or I will.

Historically, it seems that there is no way to trace the lineages of any bishops back to the actual apostles. After all, history is unsure that Jesus and the apostles existed at all, much less that they bestowed their authority on people. I'll find a reference for you on this history, but it might take me a week or more.

Mythologically, our church traces it's lineage back to St. John via a long lineage chart. How much is history? Who can say.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I'm afraid you'll have to explain more, or I will.

Historically, it seems that there is no way to trace the lineages of any bishops back to the actual apostles. After all, history is unsure that Jesus and the apostles existed at all, much less that they bestowed their authority on people. I'll find a reference for you on this history, but it might take me a week or more.

Mythologically, our church traces it's lineage back to St. John via a long lineage chart. How much is history? Who can say.

Then what's the point of claiming apostolic succession if it's worthless anyway? To make your church sound bona fide, mythological or not?

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I'm afraid you'll have to explain more, or I will.

Historically, it seems that there is no way to trace the lineages of any bishops back to the actual apostles. After all, history is unsure that Jesus and the apostles existed at all, much less that they bestowed their authority on people. I'll find a reference for you on this history, but it might take me a week or more.

Mythologically, our church traces it's lineage back to St. John via a long lineage chart. How much is history? Who can say.

Then what's the point of claiming apostolic succession if it's worthless anyway? To make your church sound bona fide?

I understand why it would be beneficial to a gnostic to have a mythological succession since most of you aren't literalists but I don't think Average Joe and Jane are going to be looking at that claim esoterically.