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The Apostle Paul was the anti-christ according to the first Christians

A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
So no Christian community where Paul went, no community whether Christian or heretic that heard of Paul called him the anti-Christ, no Christian or heretic community that remembered Paul called him the anti-Christ. It never happened during his lifetime and it never happened afterwards, at least in the scope of my reading [from 1CE to about 450CE].

In fact, the opposite happened... both Christians and Christian sects [called heretics] revered Paul, some to the extreme.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I'd appreciate mature respectful replies and input on this thread topic. I look forward to members thoughts. Thanks.

The earliest Christians would have to be Jesus 12 apostles and his first disiciples, yes?

And if we look at what the Apostles wrote about Paul, we dont get the impression that they believed he was the antichrist. For example, the Apostle Peter wrote:

2 Peter 3:15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Does that sound like the Apostles thought he was an apostate?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So in your view, it's likely from the first Christians' writings, which mention nothing of the anti-Christ until conservatively 45 years after Paul's death actually viewed him as the anti-Christ. This means that for Paul's entire ministry, while none of the literature written by himself and other Christians from about 45CE to 100CE mention him as the anti-Christ... he was still received as the anti-Christ by all the non-Pauline churches.

You realize of course that this means that the Christian communities that produced all of the canonical and non-canonical Gospels, the Gnostics or other heretical groups, and the Christian literature that actually introduces and later mentions the anti-Christ --- all of the evidence, in other words -- all (most, or some) of these writers would had to have believed that Paul was the anti-Christ yet wrote nothing about it. None of the material mentions or even remotely alludes to Paul as the anti-Christ.

This is walking in the street eating one's poop crazy. Loony toons. Peeing on the carpet.

:sorry1: I do not agree with the poster's assumption. I was correcting her. Haha It was the first time I have heard about Paul being it. I don't believe it. She or the people she listens to are twisitng words worse than I have ever seen them twisted before. Thank you for talking to me. :D
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
:sorry1: I do not agree with the poster's assumption. I was correcting her. Haha It was the first time I have heard about Paul being it. I don't believe it. She or the people she listens to are twisitng words worse than I have ever seen them twisted before. Thank you for talking to me. :D

Well that's a beautiful response. I admit I was already a little agitated by the stupidity of it all.

Consider it friendly fire. :eek:
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
UUGGGG OK Listen closely. Just pretend I am important. If Paul had a daydream it was a daydream he had and the account is the truth. If he had no daydream the account is a fabrication.
Go with the latter.
After you ask yourself something. If you met God on the road would you remember it verbatim?
Paul's account of meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus, as Paul was on his way to persecute early Christians yet again, is recorded three different times in the book of Acts. Acts 9, 22, and 26.
Paul had two companions with him. In one account the companions heard the voice speaking but didn't see anything. Next account, they saw Paul speaking to something but heard nothing.
The other account, they all saw and heard.

Have you ever noticed an inconsistency in threads about the Christian faith? Detractors and Poe's will argue it's all bogus and mythology and fable.

In a thread like this very often those with that same attitude in other threads will discount that other fables, as noted in the OP video, are valid as predating the Pauline account.

Jesus told his true anointed, which he did when he not only hand picked them but ritualized that baptism by washing their feet, Apostles that after he died if they met anyone who claimed they met Jesus anywhere, do not believe them.
He also told them that there would be false teachers who would perform signs and wonders in his name and yet were as wolves in sheeps clothing.

Paul affirmed he was an Apostle some 22 times in the new testament. He was referred to as an Apostle by others only 2. Paul repeatedly defended his self-appointment as one worthy of being equal to the other Apostles by saying he wasn't lying when he delivered his messages, supposedly from the ascended Jesus.
And at least once he argued one could believe his is a true Apostle because, and being he never knew Jesus he'd not know Jesus had warned his actual Disciples of this so that he ended up repeating almost verbatim what Jesus warned wolves in sheeps clothing would say, that he has performed signs and miracles and that should be proof he is an Apostle of the Lord.
He out of his own mouth defended himself using the words Jesus said would accompany false teachers.

And, most importantly, Paul was a Pharisee. He professed this of himself. He didn't use past tense. He said he was a Pharisee. He was learned. So he would know the proper language to use were he to have renounced that office. He didn't. He defended himself to the council that called him before them that he was a Pharisee.
A member of that community Jesus condemned as a pit of vipers.

Saul, Saul, why dost thow persecute me?

Would the ascended Yeshua have need to ask that of one member of the synagogue of satan that Jesus knew persecuted him while he was in the flesh?
And when Saul cried out at the sight of the light and the sound of the voice that first appeared to him on the road to Damascus and asked of it, lord is that you?

Remember what scripture tells us as to what is lord of this earth. It wouldn't therefore be a lie when that lord answered yes. While the rest would be that opponent of God leading his disciple to betray the mission Jesus left behind. Just as he'd tempted Jesus from it when Jesus walked the earth.

Think about it.

Also, you're arguing with people who condemn scripture and then defend it so as to say those who hold respect for it are wrong.
Those you're fighting against are enemies of the word. Don't be led to follow where they hope to lead. You shall know them by their fruits, as scripture tells us. Pay attention.
God is not mocked. :hug: God be with you always.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Go with the latter.
After you ask yourself something. If you met God on the road would you remember it verbatim?
Paul's account of meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus, as Paul was on his way to persecute early Christians yet again, is recorded three different times in the book of Acts. Acts 9, 22, and 26.
Paul had two companions with him. In one account the companions heard the voice speaking but didn't see anything. Next account, they saw Paul speaking to something but heard nothing.
The other account, they all saw and heard.

Have you ever noticed an inconsistency in threads about the Christian faith? Detractors and Poe's will argue it's all bogus and mythology and fable.

In a thread like this very often those with that same attitude in other threads will discount that other fables, as noted in the OP video, are valid as predating the Pauline account.

Jesus told his true anointed, which he did when he not only hand picked them but ritualized that baptism by washing their feet, Apostles that after he died if they met anyone who claimed they met Jesus anywhere, do not believe them.
He also told them that there would be false teachers who would perform signs and wonders in his name and yet were as wolves in sheeps clothing.

Paul affirmed he was an Apostle some 22 times in the new testament. He was referred to as an Apostle by others only 2. Paul repeatedly defended his self-appointment as one worthy of being equal to the other Apostles by saying he wasn't lying when he delivered his messages, supposedly from the ascended Jesus.
And at least once he argued one could believe his is a true Apostle because, and being he never knew Jesus he'd not know Jesus had warned his actual Disciples of this so that he ended up repeating almost verbatim what Jesus warned wolves in sheeps clothing would say, that he has performed signs and miracles and that should be proof he is an Apostle of the Lord.
He out of his own mouth defended himself using the words Jesus said would accompany false teachers.

And, most importantly, Paul was a Pharisee. He professed this of himself. He didn't use past tense. He said he was a Pharisee. He was learned. So he would know the proper language to use were he to have renounced that office. He didn't. He defended himself to the council that called him before them that he was a Pharisee.
A member of that community Jesus condemned as a pit of vipers.

Saul, Saul, why dost thow persecute me?

Would the ascended Yeshua have need to ask that of one member of the synagogue of satan that Jesus knew persecuted him while he was in the flesh?
And when Saul cried out at the sight of the light and the sound of the voice that first appeared to him on the road to Damascus and asked of it, lord is that you?

Remember what scripture tells us as to what is lord of this earth. It wouldn't therefore be a lie when that lord answered yes. While the rest would be that opponent of God leading his disciple to betray the mission Jesus left behind. Just as he'd tempted Jesus from it when Jesus walked the earth.

Think about it.

Also, you're arguing with people who condemn scripture and then defend it so as to say those who hold respect for it are wrong.
Those you're fighting against are enemies of the word. Don't be led to follow where they hope to lead. You shall know them by their fruits, as scripture tells us. Pay attention.
God is not mocked. :hug: God be with you always.
Well, this is an exegetical hot mess. No greater "enemy of the word" than someone who refuses to read the texts for what they are, and study them accordingly. You've managed to draw a whole bunch of half-conclusions based upon misapprehension and preconception.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus told his true anointed, which he did when he not only hand picked them but ritualized that baptism by washing their feet, Apostles that after he died if they met anyone who claimed they met Jesus anywhere, do not believe them.
This is you lying. Jesus didn't say what you say he said. I told you what he said. I am not going to repeat myself.

He also told them that there would be false teachers who would perform signs and wonders in his name and yet
Yes, there were and are false teachers. I think we are trying to tell you you are listening to false teachers.

were as wolves in sheeps clothing.
There you have it! Paul wasn't wearing sheep clothing. What makes you think he was?

And, most importantly, Paul was a Pharisee. He professed this of himself. He didn't use past tense. He said he was a Pharisee. He was learned. So he would know the proper language to use were he to have renounced that office. He didn't. He defended himself to the council that called him before them that he was a Pharisee.
A member of that community Jesus condemned as a pit of vipers.
They were not vipers for being Pharisees. The vipers were Pharisees who put heavy loads on the people. They didn't all do it.
Saul, Saul, why dost thow persecute me?
Right! He was so zealous for The Way he was ridding it of what he believed were apostates of it.
Would the ascended Yeshua have need to ask that of one member of the synagogue of satan that Jesus knew persecuted him while he was in the flesh?
And when Saul cried out at the sight of the light and the sound of the voice that first appeared to him on the road to Damascus and asked of it, lord is that you?
Maybe. Jesus didn't say Paul was persecuting him in his life. He was teaching Saul a lesson. "What you do to the least of these my brothers you do to me" he said.
Also, you're arguing with people who condemn scripture and then defend it so as to say those who hold respect for it are wrong.
Oh! I respect what was written. A lot of what we have which we call the word of God isn't God's Word because men have changed it to match their own desire, which men, I believe, are the real antichrists. If a scripture isn't right (not because it wasn't written right but because it was changed) they are correct to reject what isn't right.
Those you're fighting against are enemies of the word.
I do not know what this means.
Don't be led to follow where they hope to lead.
They hope to lead? I haven't met anyone on forum yet who seems to hope to lead me. Except of course one who thinks I should get an education. He is right and I think he is cute.
You shall know them by their fruits, as scripture tells us. Pay attention.
Oh how they make me laugh! Is laughing not good?
God is not mocked. God be with you always.
I believe you God will not be mocked. Thank you and you too. Peace!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You say Jesus told his apostles that if they met anyone who said they saw Jesus after his death don't believe them.

Mary saw him in the garden. What about her?

What about all the people who saw him ascend to heaven?

What about people who open the door to him and eat with him? Rev 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
Allow me to rephrase for the sake of those who are not prone to calling me a liar and are instead interested in adult dialog, and it is in scripture too so there is that.

Jesus said if anyone said they saw him, after he ascended to the father, or proclaimed Jesus was here or there come see, do not believe them.

You say Jesus told his apostles that if they met anyone who said they saw Jesus after his death don't believe them.

Mary saw him in the garden. What about her?

What about all the people who saw him ascend to heaven?

What about people who open the door to him and eat with him? Rev 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Allow me to rephrase for the sake of those who are not prone to calling me a liar and are instead interested in adult dialog, and it is in scripture too so there is that.

Jesus said if anyone said they saw him, after he ascended to the father, or proclaimed Jesus was here or there come see, do not believe them.



This means man form. Elsewhere later in the Scripture when the 'Lord' appears to others, it isn't talking about the Father, it is clearly Jesus.
 

Apple Sugar

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Sugar
Jesus told his true anointed, which he did when he not only hand picked them but ritualized that baptism by washing their feet, Apostles that after he died if they met anyone who claimed they met Jesus anywhere, do not believe them.

This is you lying. Jesus didn't say what you say he said. I told you what he said. I am not going to repeat myself.

Maybe English isn't your first language. But I don't tolerate anyone calling me a liar when the scripture proves they are unaware of what scripture says.

I can see why you name yourself savagewind. You're vulgar in your offensive name calling toward people who know more than you do about the Bible.

I was going to go into how you're wrong, but I'll let you live the delusion. You deserve that.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Allow me to rephrase for the sake of those who are not prone to calling me a liar and are instead interested in adult dialog, and it is in scripture too so there is that.

Jesus said if anyone said they saw him, after he ascended to the father, or proclaimed Jesus was here or there come see, do not believe them.

He didn't say that! He said do not believe them who say where I CAN BE FOUND. Paul didn't say where Jesus can be found. Can you just admit Paul didn't say where Jesus can be found?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus can be be found on the road to Damascus. Well, not really. If you were there with me THEN he might have been found there but of course, as I said, he did not appear to everyone there so I can't promise you anything...but....of course I can't travel back in time either....but if try you might!
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus: There will come people who will tell you where I can be found. Do not believe them.

Paul: Jesus came to me on the road to Damascus.

Apple Sugar: Paul told believers where Jesus can be found.

OK? Where did Paul say Jesus can be found?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The question that I am very aware of you ignoring is where did Paul say Jesus can be found? If Paul did not say where Jesus can be found but you say he did tell us where Jesus can be found it is called what? The truth?
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
People say Jesus can be found in their church. That is what he was warning people about.

I didn't get an answer for if it would be bad if someone experienced the phenomenon described in Rev about Jesus coming in to supper with a person and told anyone something like Paul did about the road to Damascus. Hello? Bother! On ignore again.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Words to describe where
against
along side
among
beyond
inside
near
of
throughout
to
toward
upon
with
within

Jesus said do not believe anyone telling you for you where I am.
To say Paul told anyone where Jesus is for them is A LIE. It takes more than one lie and a shameless stubborness to stick to an untruth that makes someone a liar. So saying I called you a liar is just another lie. Keep it up and I will (but not publicly) call you a liar.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe you could tell me why Paul never claimed that? Why would he not mention such an experience in his own hand, and simple say he had a feeling from within?

Do you mean in all his letters? I believe Jesus really came to him.

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.Philippians 3:12

What you won't understand is the holy ones' words are all tempered by The Sprirt of God so the right question to ask is why The Holy Spirit did not want it mentioned.
 
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