talking trash

[robtex]

This is a true story and I am posting it on here because I want to get a feel for how posters percieve this incident. Right after college (early 90's) my old college roommate calls me on the phone. Generally a respectable guy he got into a bar fight the night before and used the only martial arts technique he had ever worked on to win this fight. Osoto gari
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

That part is as important as why the fight happened. He was at a bar near smu campus drinking with his friends and a jamaican sitting at the next table was bad-mouthing the USA on everything from foreign policy to domestic taxation. I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what was said but at one point my old roomie turns around and tells the guy to shut-up and if he doesn't like this country than leave (the country).

The fella makes some more trash talk about the USA both guys stand-up, punches are thrown, my old roommate does his throw (see above link) and the guy lands head-first on a hardwood floor knocked silly. The bouncers elated someone shut-up the anti-american trash talker drag the semi concious man outside. People cheer and someone buys my old roomie a beer.

When I heard the story however I felt sad. Sad that a politicial dissagreement could only be resolved through violence. On a larger scale I wonder if some wars could have been negociated to resolution or if war was the only option. If you had been my old roommie in the bar that night and a fella was talking trash about your country what would you have done and why? If you had seen the incident as a patron would you have bought my old roomie a beer or cheered him on?

 

[ChrisP]

Sorry Rob, I needed an "other"

I woulda ordered the man the worst beer in the house... just rubbish tasting.

 

[robtex]

I woulda ordered the man the worst beer in the house... just rubbish tasting.

You fight dirty Chris!!!

 

[kai]

i would argue the point then knock his block off, no seriously it all depends how aggressive he was and only in self defense

 

[robtex]

i would argue the point then knock his block off, no seriously it all depends how aggressive he was and only in self defense

He is sitting at a different table and talking to his friends. He only stands up when you bring issue of his rants.

 

[MaddLlama]

Personally I would have ignored him. I've been in similar situations, and everyone is entitled to thier opinion. If I'm out at a bar drinking, I would rather enjoy my drink than engage in political debate, especially with someone who's from another country.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

This is a true story and I am posting it on here because I want to get a feel for how posters percieve this incident. Right after college (early 90's) my old college roommate calls me on the phone. Generally a respectable guy he got into a bar fight the night before and used the only martial arts technique he had ever worked on to win this fight. Osoto gari
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

That part is as important as why the fight happened. He was at a bar near smu campus drinking with his friends and a jamaican sitting at the next table was bad-mouthing the USA on everything from foreign policy to domestic taxation. I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what was said but at one point my old roomie turns around and tells the guy to shut-up and if he doesn't like this country than leave (the country).

The fella makes some more trash talk about the USA both guys stand-up, punches are thrown, my old roommate does his throw (see above link) and the guy lands head-first on a hardwood floor knocked silly. The bouncers elated someone shut-up the anti-american trash talker drag the semi concious man outside. People cheer and someone buys my old roomie a beer.

When I heard the story however I felt sad. Sad that a politicial dissagreement could only be resolved through violence. On a larger scale I wonder if some wars could have been negociated to resolution or if war was the only option. If you had been my old roommie in the bar that night and a fella was talking trash about your country what would you have done and why? If you had seen the incident as a patron would you have bought my old roomie a beer or cheered him on?

Well this particular move seems to be less violent than the punches that were thrown.

I was wondering if the 'trash-talker' had been a "red-blooded, all american boy" a hard working, tax-paying, voting American, with the same negative opinions, would your friend have been so quick to get angry, or would he have maybe joined in with his own complaints about America?

I have never known a jamaican to be violent, opinionated maybe, but not violent. Any time someone expresses this kind hatred towards something, it is a reflection of something inside of them. And your friend needs to learn how to control his emotions.

 

[Sunstone]

When I've been in similar circumstances, I've often asked enough questions of the talker to get a sense for whether he (or she) has any idea what they're talking about or are just blowing hot air.

Quite often, they don't understand much about the States and are just the sort of people who are bores wherever they go. Like the stereotypical American tourist, their real game is to feel superior by putting down others.

Occasionally, however, you run across someone who is highly informed and from whom you can indeed learn something valuable. I used to know a lot of foriegn students when I was in school, and their takes on America were sometimes fascinating and better informed than the average American in some ways.

 

[gnomon]

To be perfectly honest it is hard to know based on the information provided. Considering how it is presented I believe the bouncers should have thrown your roommate out of the bar. What kind of person is he if he can't stand someone, probably drunk since this is in a bar, stating what he pleases? Sounds pretty pathetic to me.

 

[cardero]

Sorry Robtex, I picked choice
e) I probably would have joined the jamaican in a beer and we possibly would have found more problems with America.
I don’t put much faith or doubt in America. I am not pro or anti, I have lived here for 40 years and I do not agree with several of its practices or attitudes. I have voiced my concerns to fellow friends and employees when asked and I have received the same rebuttal; “If you do not like it, why don’t you leave? Anybody who tells me to love America or leave it has to be reminded that I pay rent and not one of America’s landlord’s has ever come over to ask me how I am enjoying my stay (even with a $50 meal the waiter/waitress comes by the table at least once to make sure that the meal is okay and asks if you need anything). For a nation that promotes itself as the land of the free I haven’t experienced much of this freedom.

 

[standing_alone]

To be perfectly honest it is hard to know based on the information provided. Considering how it is presented I believe the bouncers should have thrown your roommate out of the bar. What kind of person is he if he can't stand someone, probably drunk since this is in a bar, stating what he pleases? Sounds pretty pathetic to me.

I concur.


I would have chosen to ignore the man because frankly, it would be none of my damn business to be eavesdropping in on a conversation that someone was having at a private table. The man also has a right to his opinion, whether or not I like it, and to violently beat someone up because they hold a different opinion than me seems to be just as Un-American as the possible statements that man could have made.

 

[Jaymes]

I probably would have agreed with him on some points and ignored him if I didn't agree. I'm not the type to go out of my way to stir up trouble.

 

[evearael]

I would have chosen to ignore the man because frankly, it would be none of my damn business to be eavesdropping in on a conversation that someone was having at a private table. The man also has a right to his opinion, whether or not I like it, and to violently beat someone up because they hold a different opinion than me seems to be just as Un-American as the possible statements that man could have made.

I agree. Drinking and political arguements with strangers are a volatile mix. It's much better to leave it alone and address while sober, if necessary. That said, if someone struck me first for stating my opinion, they are going down.

 

[Smoke]

Frankly, I think your old roomie, the bar staff, and the other patrons all acted like jerks.

My Uncle Ray used to say that it was a privilege to pay taxes in such a great country, but just about every other adult I've ever known has complained about taxes at some time or another.

Complaining about foreign policy can only mean complaining about the government, which is not the same thing at all as "trash talking" the USA, and that's also a venerable American tradition.

So I gather that much of the other man's "offense" consisted in being Jamaican.

If I had been the bartender that night, both men would have had to leave the bar and if they didn't leave quietly they'd have left in the back of a police car. Certainly no one would have been standing either of them drinks. But I place the greater blame on your friend for starting the whole thing by refusing to mind his own business. It would have been best if your friend had been ejected from the bar before it came to blows.

 

[Fluffy]

I probably would have ignored him. If somebody else attacked him, I would have stood up for him.

If I was drunk then I might have had the confidence to debate him depending how rational he sounded.

 

[Melody]

I would've ignored him. I generally do ignore stupid people and drunks. Neither have given any indication that their brains are engaged before they open their mouths and aren't worth debating.

I'll put the rest of my comment in the pet peeve thread.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I voted 'knock his anti-American block off', but that answer is hypothetical since I don't go to bars, and I rarely ever drink.

Sorry, but if someone comes to America and then proceeds to trash talkus, then he got what he deserved.

I bet if an American went to another country, trash talked their government, and got beat up, many of you defending this Jamaican would be saying the 'ugly rude' American got what he deserved. And you would be correct...I just think you should be consistant.:149:

 

[Smoke]

I bet if an American went to another country, trash talked their government, and got beat up, many of you defending this Jamaican would be saying the 'ugly rude' American got what he deserved. And you would be correct...I just think you should be consistant.:149:

You'd lose that bet.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

You'd lose that bet.

Maybe for you, but not for everyone. There are a lot of people who hold a hypocritical view that Americans should keep their mouths shut when they visit other countries, but anyone who wants to come here and trash America is A-OK. That is unless you have interviewed everyone else.

 

[Ophiuchus]

First of all, I would have told the Jamaican that he is surrounded by many potentially violent drunken patriots, and that he needs to be more careful for his own good.

Secondly, I would have told him that I know what he says has its truths, and that all countries big and small have problems. Then I would have said that he cannot expect one of the biggest of the countries to be spotless.

Then I would have bought him a drink and offered to chat peacefully with him about what he has to say.