subject/object

[Ozzie]

It seems very natural to talk about the notions of subjective and objective. I am curious what Buddhists think about this distinction. Is there a dividing line between subjective and objective? If so, where does it lie?

 

[Engyo]

Interesting question, Ozzie -

I only know the teachings of my particular school well enough to attempt an answer, so this is one particular interpretation rather than a generic Buddhist one.

We strive in our particular practice to achieve kyochi myogo, or the fusion of subjective wisdom with objective reality. This is a subtle thing, but it leads ultimately to complete understanding (or enlightenment). Part of this is done through letting go of attachment - or the desire for things/people to be, act or function in certain ways when they aren't or don't. Part of this is also done through letting go of attachment to the ego - which also drives much of the separation of subjective wisdom from objective reality.

Another facet is to examine ultimate reality in light of the basic Buddhist concepts of anatta, or no self; anicca, or impermanence; sunya, or emptiness; and co-dependent arising, or dependent origination. As one studies, and meditates, one begins to be able to grasp reality in the light of these concepts. This is all very theoretical, and may not seem very applicable when that semi is bearing down on you at 75 mph, of course, but it does help me at least to understand some of how this world works. I still do need to avoid the semi, though. Drive first, meditate later as one teacher told me.

Eventually these beginnings of understanding start to percolate through to one's daily life. This helps make it easier to lose more attachments, and eliminate more of the causes of suffering, and understand things a bit better, and so on and so forth.

I hope this isn't too wordy..............

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Aye, Engyo. I see what you're saying and I agree. The difference between relative and absolute reality is in the gradations of a being on the path to enlightenment.



As far as I know, and consider I've only practiced Vajrayana for nearly three years so I'm still quite the novice, our school throws in another wrench in this gradation. We have pure illusion, then awareness from empirical study, then "self"- liberation (lower enlightenment of dharmakaya body dimension/ or Truth).......and then a "greater" liberation of "Self-nature" of swabhavakaya body dimension.


To me, this is kind of the difference of the realization of the arhat and the realization of the bodhisattva.



Cool thread, Ozzie!



Peace,
Mystic

 

[Ozzie]

Interesting question, Ozzie -

I only know the teachings of my particular school well enough to attempt an answer, so this is one particular interpretation rather than a generic Buddhist one.

We strive in our particular practice to achieve kyochi myogo, or the fusion of subjective wisdom with objective reality. This is a subtle thing, but it leads ultimately to complete understanding (or enlightenment). Part of this is done through letting go of attachment - or the desire for things/people to be, act or function in certain ways when they aren't or don't. Part of this is also done through letting go of attachment to the ego - which also drives much of the separation of subjective wisdom from objective reality.

Another facet is to examine ultimate reality in light of the basic Buddhist concepts of anatta, or no self; anicca, or impermanence; sunya, or emptiness; and co-dependent arising, or dependent origination. As one studies, and meditates, one begins to be able to grasp reality in the light of these concepts. This is all very theoretical, and may not seem very applicable when that semi is bearing down on you at 75 mph, of course, but it does help me at least to understand some of how this world works. I still do need to avoid the semi, though. Drive first, meditate later as one teacher told me.

Eventually these beginnings of understanding start to percolate through to one's daily life. This helps make it easier to lose more attachments, and eliminate more of the causes of suffering, and understand things a bit better, and so on and so forth.

I hope this isn't too wordy..............

This is a very practical portrait of what I understand in Buddhism. So do you think that the subjective/objective boundary shifts inwards in meditation?

 

[Ozzie]

Aye, Engyo. I see what you're saying and I agree. The difference between relative and absolute reality is in the gradations of a being on the path to enlightenment.



As far as I know, and consider I've only practiced Vajrayana for nearly three years so I'm still quite the novice, our school throws in another wrench in this gradation. We have pure illusion, then awareness from empirical study, then "self"- liberation (lower enlightenment of dharmakaya body dimension/ or Truth).......and then a "greater" liberation of "Self-nature" of swabhavakaya body dimension.


To me, this is kind of the difference of the realization of the arhat and the realization of the bodhisattva.



Cool thread, Ozzie!



Peace,
Mystic

Gradations is an excellent example of what I am aiming at here. Perhaps I ought to direct more of my questions to others who engage in voluntary brain washing/cleansing.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Gradations is an excellent example of what I am aiming at here. Perhaps I ought to direct more of my questions to others who engage in voluntary brain washing/cleansing.

Cool. Remember there's also the segment of the population that "masks" the pollution in their minds not by brain washing/cleansing but by spraying Febreze on their heads.




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What? :flirt:




Peace,
Mystic

 

[zenzero]

The seer and the seen.
The dancer and the dance
the singer and the song
The doer and the deed.
This is duality which again is from the mind
Where the mind is still they are just not two anymore.
It is not said that they are ONe as again the mind will starts its play and ask if it can be one why not two and so on.
Keeping the mind out is the only goal.
Love & rgds