Son, Father, and Sons of God

[13 apostle]

The Son, The Father, The Sons of God​

Excerpt from ’The Book of Monotheism: The Interpretation of Surah Al Tawheed’ By: Imam Ahmad Al Hassan (pbuh):



The Son:

In the Torah and the Gospels (My Father, Your Father, the Son, the Father, the Sons of God).

4 …. But this is what the LORD Almighty says: “They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the LORD. 5 You will see it with your own eyes and say, ‘Great is the LORD—even beyond the borders of Israel!’ 6 “A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?” says the LORD Almighty. “It is you priests who show contempt for my name.” [1].

21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. 22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” 23 Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.” [2].

1 Ascribe to the LORD, O Children of Allah, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength. 2 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; Worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness) [3].

1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them. He said: 3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. [4].

These words which are present within the Torah or the Gospels and which certain parts of it were ambiguous/confusing to the one whom is ignorant of them, and which the non-working scholars interpreted- in order that they may claim son-ship of a human being to Allah, the Glorious, or that they may claim Absolute Godhood to a man – it does not mean by any form or image Godhood of a human being Absolute Godhood, rather, it collectively denies true filiation (The condition or fact of being the child of a certain parent) for any man [5]. And if one turned towards it with an open heart, requesting knowledge of the truth just as Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, wants from whom He Created, he would have found that Jesus (pbuh) praises Allah and thanks Him before uttering these words, and if one looked with an eye of fairness they would have known that these words are applicable to all of the Prophets and the Messengers and the Vicegerents whom were the Hujjajj (Proofs) of Allah upon His Creation and His Successors on His Earth. For, every Hujja (Proof) from the Hujjajj (Proofs) of Allah is the most knowledgeable of Allah among the people of his time, thus, it becomes proven that he is [the only one] whom knows Allah among the people of his time, and also it becomes proven that no one knows the Successor of Allah and the Proof of Allah a true knowing except for Allah whom created him (and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal to him).

And this is found in the speech of the Messenger of Allah Muhammad (pbuh & his progeny) to his Vicegerent Ali son of Abi Talib (pbuh): “O Ali! No one knows Allah except for me and you, and no one knows me except for Allah and you, and no one knows you except for Allah and me.” [6].

And also, man would have known the truth, which is that all of the creation are the children of Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, for He has Mercy upon them as a father has mercy upon his children, rather, He is More Merciful with the Creation than the Mother with her only child. And certainly the Prophets and the Vicegerents and the preferred ones (pbut) are the most beloved Creation to Allah, the Glorious, so they are the most deserving of having Allah, the Glorious, The Almighty, as their father according to this meaning, and because they obeyed Him and did not disobey Him, the Glorious, just as the virtuous son is obedient and dutiful to his father, thus,it becomes correct that they are the children of Allah according to this meaning, and they are not Absolute Divinity, rather, they are honored servants, for they are thankful. {And they say, “The Most Merciful has taken a son.” Exalted is He! Rather, they are [but] honored servants.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-’Anbyā’ (The Prophets): 26}.

{If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates whatever He willed. Exalted is He; He is Allah, the One, the Prevailing.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Az-Zumar (The Troops): 4}.

And it is evident in the Qur’an that they (pbut) {… whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light…} {The Holy Qur’an Surat An-Nūr (The Light): 35}, meaning, that they are Allah in Creation, meaning [that they are] the manifestation of Allah and the Image of Allah just as a Hadith (Tradition) from them (pbut) stated: “Indeed, Allah created Adam upon His Image.” [7], 26 God said, ‘Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, [8], and they are not Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty. And consequently, the looking towards them is looking towards Allah, seeing them is seeing Allah, and in the Gospels: 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

And in the Qur’an will be found the same talk: {[Some] faces, that Day, will be radiant,* Looking at their Lord.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-Qiyāmah (The Resurrection): 22& 23}, from Abi Al Salt Al Hurrayra from Imam Al Rida (pbuh), he said: “Said the Prophet (pbuh & his progeny): ‘Whomever has visited me during my life or after my death then he has visited Allah, the Almighty, and the prophet of Allah (pbuh & his Famly) shall include him in the Highest degrees in Paradise. Thus, whomever visits him in his degree in Paradise from his home then he has visited Allah, the Blessed, the Almighty.’ I said: “So I said to him: ‘O Son of the Messenger of Allah (pbuh & his progeny)! What is the meaning of what has been narrated: That the reward [for saying] ‘La Illahu Ila Allah – There is No God except for Allah’ is looking towards the face of Allah, the Almighty?’ So he (pbuh) said: ‘O Abi Salt! Whomever describes Allah, the Almighty, [that He has a face] as the faces the he has indeed disbelieved, however, the Face of Allah, the Almighty, is His Prophets, and His Messengers, and His Proofs, Mercy of Allah be upon them, they are whom by them you face/turn towards Allah, the Exalted, and towards His Religion, and knowing Him, and said Allah, the Almighty: {Everyone upon the earth will perish,* And there will remain the Face of your Lord, Owner of Majesty and Honor.}, and said the Exalted: {Everything will be destroyed except for His Face}.’” [9].

Said the Almighty: {Say, [O Muhammad], “If the Most Merciful had a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers.”} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Az-Zukhruf (The Ornaments of Gold)}.

{Say, [O Muhammad], “If the Most Merciful had a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers.”} Meaning that Muhammad (pbuh & his progeny) is the nearest thing to Allah, the Glorious, and the first Creation that Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, created, and the first whom worshiped Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty. Thus, if Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, had a son (Far Above and Exalted is Allah for that) it would have been Muhammad (pbuh & his progeny); for verily, they say that the first which was produced from Him, the Glorious, the Almighty, was the child/son or the Word. Therefore, Muhammad whom said ‘I am the nearest creation to Allah, Glory be to Him, the Almighty’ did not say ‘I am the son separated from Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty’, nor did he say ‘I am an Absolute God’, but rather, he said ‘I am Abdullah (the servant of Allah) and the son of Abdullah (the servant of Allah)’.{And they say, “The Most Merciful has taken a son.” Exalted is He! Rather, they are [but] honored servants.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-’Anbyā’ (The Prophets): 26}.

 

[13 apostle]

Thus, whomever is seeking the truth he should be so accurate and sincere/dedicated in his search in order that he may reach the truth and save himself from the wrath of Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty {And they say, “The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son.” * You have done an atrocious thing. * The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation * That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son. * And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Maryam (Mary): 88 – 92}.


______________________________

[1] The Torah, Malachi, First Chapter – The Old and New Testament. – Congregation for Eastern Churches.

[2] The Gospel of Luke, Tenth Chapter – The Old and New Testament – Congregation for Eastern Churches.

[3] The Torah, Psalms, Twenty Ninth Chapter – The Old and New Testament. Congregation for Eastern Churches.

[4] The Gospel of Matthew Fifth Chapter – The Old and New Testament – Congregation for Eastern Churches.

[5] Because some people call a group of people “the children/sons of God”, so are they real sons of God and [are they all] Gods based on the [same] notion of the ones whom consider that [the fact that] Jesus is mentioned in the Gospel to be “son of God” indicates his Divinity and real son-ship to Allah? Far Exalted is Allah from that.

[6] Mukhtasar Bas’air Al Darajat: P. 125.

[7] Al Kafi: V. 1, P. 134. Al Tawhid Al Sadouq: P. 103.

[8] In the Torah, The Book of Genesis, First Chapter.

[9] ‘Uyoun Akhbar Al Ridha (pbuh): V. 2, P. 106.

 

[outhouse]

What are you debating?


Just here preaching?

 

[Rakhel]

What are you debating?


Just here preaching?

you beat me to it.

 

[Thief]

I didn't see consideration to the pledge made when we recite the Lord's Prayer.

'Our Father.....'
Whose Father?......son of God are you?......brothers are we?

And of course the consideration.....
The angels hear it.

I hear one third of heaven lost their positions over an argument concerning something that looks like us.

Two thirds of heaven lost their brothers over the same argument....about something that looks like us.

One third of the angelic want us dead.
The other two thirds may not care.

 

[collectivedementia]

God is called the Father because he is the Creator of the universe and all life in it. You could even say He is the Father of all beings that occupy this earth,not just the humans.From bacteria to elephants to the largest whales,He is the creator, the seed-planter. He is the Father of Jesus just as mortal men have sons....He planted the seed of human life in the virgin Mary,without the act of human sex. This means Jesus had his father "in Him" in the same manner as human sons have traces of thier father "in" them.God performed this miracle to provide a way of salvation for the sinful human race,sending a sacrifice for the sin offering,reflecting the OT ritual recorded so many times in the Word.
Jesus will also become as his Father when He inherits the throne to rule the Earth for one housand years,then to abide over all creation for the rest of eternity.

 

[idea]

youtube Mormon messages Father - Yahoo! Search Results

 

[johnhanks]

God ... planted the seed of human life in the virgin Mary,without the act of human sex.

Jesus's chromosomes must have been interesting. Almost makes you wish the Shroud of Turin were genuine - extract the DNA from a bloodstain and we could find God's genome; in the long run, perhaps clone him.

 

[ChristineES]

Jesus's chromosomes must have been interesting. Almost makes you wish the Shroud of Turin were genuine - extract the DNA from a bloodstain and we could find God's genome; in the long run, perhaps clone him.

That wouldn't work. We Christians believe that Jesus body was 100% human while He preached, in other words, it would have had human DNA.

 

[johnhanks]

That wouldn't work. We Christians believe that Jesus body was 100% human while He preached, in other words, it would have had human DNA.

But whose? The only human involved in his conception (if we go with the Christian mythology) was Mary's. So was Jesus haploid, like a male honeybee? Or did Mary's chromosomes undergo non-disjunction and make a diploid egg (which would have grown up female)? Or did God simply create in the egg that Mary ovulated that month a perfect set of male chromosomes to match Mary's female set?
Obviously a believer can go along with any of these, but only at the expense of seriously compromising the "100% human" claim.

 

[collectivedementia]

But whose? The only human involved in his conception (if we go with the Christian mythology) was Mary's. So was Jesus haploid, like a male honeybee? Or did Mary's chromosomes undergo non-disjunction and make a diploid egg (which would have grown up female)? Or did God simply create in the egg that Mary ovulated that month a perfect set of male chromosomes to match Mary's female set?
Obviously a believer can go along with any of these, but only at the expense of seriously compromising the "100% human" claim.

I am fairly certain that God does not have DNA since He is a Spirit and not a carbon-based inhabitant of this world. Therfore Jesus would have to be human in body and mind, and divine in the Spirit which was given him by His Father.Jesus had to be human to suffer on the cross before his death,even to be tempted by Satan in the wilderness. His divinity of Spirit allowed Him to rebuke the devil,just as it allowed Him to ascend to heaven after his death and resurrection.

 

[johnhanks]

I am fairly certain that God does not have DNA since He is a Spirit and not a carbon-based inhabitant of this world. Therfore Jesus would have to be human in body and mind...

Presumably "human in body" means being made of human cells with nuclei containing DNA. (If not, he's hardly human in body).

... and divine in the Spirit which was given him by His Father.

OK, so all god provided was immaterial "spirit". We are still left with the question of who provided Jesus's second set of chromosomes (one of them necessarily a Y).

Alternatively, if believers simply want to exempt Jesus from the whole cell/nucleus/chromosome dependency, then out of the window goes any notion that he was "human" in any sense whatsoever.

 

[collectivedementia]

Presumably "human in body" means being made of human cells with nuclei containing DNA. (If not, he's hardly human in body).
OK, so all god provided was immaterial "spirit". We are still left with the question of who provided Jesus's second set of chromosomes (one of them necessarily a Y).

Alternatively, if believers simply want to exempt Jesus from the whole cell/nucleus/chromosome dependency, then out of the window goes any notion that he was "human" in any sense whatsoever.

What God "provided" was the miracle of Jesus's birth by a virgin human female. Since God was the designer of human DNA in the first place, it is not too far of a stretch to believe He could fashion the genetic makeup of Jesus Christ as He saw fit.

 

[johnhanks]

What God "provided" was the miracle of Jesus's birth by a virgin human female. Since God was the designer of human DNA in the first place, it is not too far of a stretch to believe He could fashion the genetic makeup of Jesus Christ as He saw fit.

If you're a believer, then no doubt this is a perfectly satisfying conclusion - although it does leave the intriguing question of just what genetic makeup he would see fit, and how similar that would be to the rest of us. (Someone really should be working on those Shroud bloodstains...)

 

[Katzpur]

But whose? The only human involved in his conception (if we go with the Christian mythology) was Mary's.

According to one LDS author, "If Jesus was truly a human being, then he had forty-six chromosomes, a double strand of twenty-three. If He was truly human, He got one strand of twenty-three chromosomes from His mother. Where did the other strang come from, if not from His Father. I am not talking about a sexual conception, only a divine conception and a divine sonship."

 

[johnhanks]

According to one LDS author, "If Jesus was truly a human being, then he had forty-six chromosomes, a double strand of twenty-three. If He was truly human, He got one strand of twenty-three chromosomes from His mother. Where did the other strang come from, if not from His Father.

With respect, I'm not sure how much light your LDS author has shed on the issue. So is inheriting just one set of chromosomes from one human parent really enough to make someone "truly human"?

I am not talking about a sexual conception, only a divine conception and a divine sonship."

Translation: I'm going to dodge the issue by deploying mystical verbal fudge like "divine conception".

 

[Katzpur]

With respect, I'm not sure how much light your LDS author has shed on the issue. So is inheriting just one set of chromosomes from one human parent really enough to make someone "truly human"?

As far as I know, all humans have a double set of 23 chromosomes -- one from each parent. A single set of 23 chromosomes would not result in a human being.

Translation: I'm going to dodge the issue by deploying mystical verbal fudge like "divine conception".

Mystical verbal fudge? I don't even know what that is. But in the event that you didn't understand what I was saying, let me put it another way... I don't believe that Jesus Christ was conceived through a sexual union between God the Father and Mary, but through some means not understood by man. I do believe, however, that God was Jesus' Father just as literally as I believe that Mary was His mother.

 

[LFSHEEP]

The Son's name is Yahusha and the Father's is YHWH.

 

[johnhanks]

As far as I know, all humans have a double set of 23 chromosomes -- one from each parent. A single set of 23 chromosomes would not result in a human being.

This is certainly true. I was just interested in establishing how far backwards believers were prepared to bend in their definition of "truly human".

Mystical verbal fudge? I don't even know what that is ... I do believe, however, that God was Jesus' Father just as literally as I believe that Mary was His mother.

Aw, come on, you're just being modest. You know very well what "mystical verbal fudge" means - so well you even provided a second example.

 

[Katzpur]

Aw, come on, you're just being modest. You know very well what "mystical verbal fudge" means - so well you even provided a second example.

Well good for me. A lucky shot in the dark, I guess. Jesus referred to God as His Father throughout the four gospel accounts of His life. I just happen to believe that He meant it. Silly me and my mystical fudge.