Soaring Gas Prices

[Aqualung]

Sorry to leave you hanging, MrT, because this has been a very enjoyable post, but this will be my last response. I'll be moving to a place with very limited internet access. I know, it's a stupid thing to leave in the middle of a debate , but hopefully soyleche will provide enough stimulation.

Read my response to him.

You have to drive 30 miles into town to GET food in some places. And as I keep pointing out and as you keep ignoring, not everyone has those options available.

Then you should have thought about that before living that far out of town. Your lack of forsight is YOUR responsibility. People who sell gas are trying to make a living. THEY had forsight and were able to invest properly, and now they get to reap the rewards. You DIDN'T, but that's your own fault and you have to deal with the consequences. Forced charity isn't stable or beneficial to societies.

Where I work isn't even on that map. 30 min out of town = No walking and no mass transit.

I'm sure you could find a map with it. This map isn't comprehensive. After all, where I work isn't on their either.

If it's so easy do the milage on these cities which you seemed to have missed. Hollywood Hills, Santa Monica, Culver City, Rancho Park, Palms.

What do you mean? Do you want me to tell you how far away they are? Get a ruler! Look at the scale, and measure.

No one said it was hard, but it requirew more walking than 2 miles, which is what I was trying to show you. And you still have yet to tell me where downtown is exactly.

No, it doesn't. Look, you can take whatever bus route is close to you. Then, the MAXIMUM distance you would ever have to walk to transfer to another bus route is about two miles. Yeah, you'll have to walk more than two miles if your an idiot and you get off on a stop like twenty before yours, but if you ride the bus properly you never will.

Right, because everyone can just get up and move wherever they want Quite a fantasy land you live in.

It's not a fantasy. It's reality. My family has had to do it when we could no longer work places or commute to work or afford housing. It's not pretty, and often involves taking trains across the country, but it's possible.

Jobs require people to have certain skill.

Exactly. Which is why if you DON'T have the skills, you'll get low pay and you won't be able to afford gas. But, you DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS. You could afford the gas maybe if you were providing a worthwhile service to society, but if you haven't taken the time to develop skills, why should you have the same benefits (ie, conveniences) piled upon your lap as the people who have?

Not everyone has all of the skills they need for jobs close by despite what you think (or don't).

\
There's always restaurantes, there's always loading docks, there's always mowing people's lawns. there are always low skill jobs.

Some people have specific trade skills that they can only utilze in places away from their home. Like construction workers. They can't take a bus to work.

If they knew how to ride te bus they could.

But I guess they could always quit their job and work at two McDonalds so they don't have to drive to work each day

That would be a good solution. If they can't afford a certain lifestyle, they'd better change it. No, wait, let's make other people pay so they can afford a lifestyle they haven't earned. Can I try it now? Wow, that was pretty cool to use that smily.

I could tell you live in a farming community. With your "knowledge" of L.A. and how it's transit works it was obvious where your ignorance lies.

:biglaugh: I know how to ride a bus and get transfers, at least.

 

[Mister_T]

Then you should have thought about that before living that far out of town. Your lack of forsight is YOUR responsibility. People who sell gas are trying to make a living. THEY had forsight and were able to invest properly, and now they get to reap the rewards. You DIDN'T, but that's your own fault and you have to deal with the consequences. Forced charity isn't stable or beneficial to societies.

Unforseeable circumstances are just fictional I suppose.

Do you want me to tell you how far away they are? Get a ruler! Look at the scale, and measure

Yeah actually I do. My whole point is to enlighten you that a 2 mile walk it aint.

Then, the MAXIMUM distance you would ever have to walk to transfer to another bus route is about two miles. Yeah, you'll have to walk more than two miles if your an idiot and you get off on a stop like twenty before yours, but if you ride the bus properly you never will.

Wrong. Go look at the cities I told you....or you can intentionally leave yourself in the dark. By the way, Where's downtown L.A. located on that map again?

It's not a fantasy. It's reality. My family has had to do it when we could no longer work places or commute to work or afford housing. It's not pretty, and often involves taking trains across the country, but it's possible.

And your family and their circumstances are not everyone elses. They are situational. For some people, your suggestions are not an option.

Exactly. Which is why if you DON'T have the skills, you'll get low pay and you won't be able to afford gas. But, you DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS. You could afford the gas maybe if you were providing a worthwhile service to society, but if you haven't taken the time to develop skills, why should you have the same benefits (ie, conveniences) piled upon your lap as the people who have?

You're turning this into something else.

Some people's skills require them to travel to places that are not around their surrounding area. Like construction workers. It has nothing to do with their lack of skills. They have the skills and they are not low paid by any means. Fuel and a car is a necessity to them.

There's always restaurantes, there's always loading docks, there's always mowing people's lawns. there are always low skill jobs.

And these types of jobs you could get in the blink of an eye right? Wrong. And many of these bottom-on-the-totem-pole jobs aren't even worth having because they don't even pay you enough to pay half your rent.

If they knew how to ride te bus they could

Right, because new housing developments are always buit close to where buses run. Not to mention a lot of the bus routes are not available 24 hours, which a construction worker would need for the hours they work.

No, wait, let's make other people pay so they can afford a lifestyle they haven't earned. Can I try it now

You can. Move to a place like Central Africa where people are paying for your American lifestyle which, you undoubtedly have not earned, so you dont drown in the hypocrisy of that statement.

:biglaugh: I know how to ride a bus and get transfers, at least.

Too bad you don't have the same level of expertise in geography and map comprehension. :bonk:

 

[Mister_T]

Sorry to leave you hanging, MrT, because this has been a very enjoyable post, but this will be my last response. I'll be moving to a place with very limited internet access. I know, it's a stupid thing to leave in the middle of a debate , but hopefully soyleche will provide enough stimulation

Not nearly as enjoyable as mine I assure you.

 

[Booko]

You have to drive 30 miles into town to GET food in some places. And as I keep pointing out and as you keep ignoring, not everyone has those options available.

Yeah, I hear they have a lot of public transport in the UP of Michigan.

I think it involves waving a white hanky while shouting "Hey Sailor!" at passing cars...

Where I work isn't even on that map. 30 min out of town = No walking and no mass transit.

Here in Atlanta we have the added wrinkle, which I'm sure you have in LA as well -- the jobs are clustered in some areas, and normal people can't afford to live there.

We're pretty lucky -- I live near the Perimeter area, which has a lot of jobs (and where we've mostly worked), and we can afford to live just inside, south of Dunwoody. But if we had less than top notch techie jobs or were just getting started in our careers, we couldn't afford to live here. We might easily have to live a 30 miles away from a job, with public transport that would take you, hm, with transfers, maybe 1.5 to 2 hours one way. Try that with a sick kid in daycare sometime.

No one said it was hard, but it requirew more walking than 2 miles, which is what I was trying to show you. And you still have yet to tell me where downtown is exactly.

And then there are people like me who "look" healthy, but in no way could handle a 2 mile walk. At the moment, I'd be lucky to make it around the block.

Sorry Aqualung and others, but I guess if my choice is between a car to buy groceries and hoofing it and having a stroke, I'll take a car, thanks.

I have to go to around 6 different stores, none of them especially close, just to get food I actually eat. Public transport is an option, if I feel like getting even sicker than I already am.

But hey, continue living in a nice ideal world where the transport is as decent as NYC or Boston, if that makes ya happy. (I loved London, just for the transportation and walkability of the city!)

Jobs require people to have certain skill. Not everyone has all of the skills they need for jobs close by despite what you think (or don't). Some people have specific trade skills that they can only utilze in places away from their home. Like construction workers. They can't take a bus to work.

Yup. For a while my stepdad had to drive to the other side of the state for a job. He shared driving with 3 other guys.

As for me, when I'm able to work my business, it requires having my own transport.

I'm not sure how I'd use public transport to haul 25 60qt bags of soil and a bunch of plant materials and tools to my clients office for spring planting.

I suspect MARTA may take a dim view of delaying the bus for 15 minutes while I load up my dirt in all the seats. Hm.

But I guess they could always quit their job and work at two McDonalds so they don't have to drive to work each day Good thing we live in the real world and these things aren't an option for everyone.

Well, if you live in Flint, MI and can't get a job (likely, with a 50% unemployment rate), you could take a bus 2 hours in one direction to Ann Arbor to work a minimum wage job. And then of course your kid will be unattended at home, so when he runs amuck and gets accused of shooting someone you're 11 year old will be tried as an adult and convicted.

No, I'm not making this up. It happened in the real world. The world where people who couldn't dream of affording a computer and participating on RF live.

And I'm sure the farmer who lives out in Nebraska farmland would disagree with you about a car being a necessity.

Quick! I need to get from Escanaba to Cheboygan! When does the bus come by? (Hint: When pigs fly...)

 

[Ðanisty]

Chatham Area Transit (CAT) doesn't even go everywhere in Chatham county. I live 15 minutes from downtown and I'm not anywhere near a bus stop. I would have to travel several miles for a bus stop and the town I live in isn't even the furthest from Savannah within the county.

 

[Booko]

Chatham Area Transit (CAT) doesn't even go everywhere in Chatham county. I live 15 minutes from downtown and I'm not anywhere near a bus stop. I would have to travel several miles for a bus stop and the town I live in isn't even the furthest from Savannah within the county.

Wow, and I thought y'all had more effective transport than we did. Having those county fiefdoms like we do here does rather get in the way.

The thing is, our lifestyle years ago lent itself to living without a car. When my Mom was young, there were cable cars that covered the town pretty well, and you could get where you were going as long as you lived in town.

If you were a farmer/factory worker like my grandfather, you had to have a car, even back in the 40s. Well, you coulda rode a horse I suppose, but there was no place to tie it up at the mill.

Everything changed in the 60s, as that well-documented conspiracy to destroy public transport in this country so we could all buy more cars and tires took over. We started building communities for cars and not people. No sidewlks. No corner stores. Shopping areas were supposed to be *away* from residential areas.

Our neighborhood was built in the late 60s and early 70s, and it shows. There are no sidewalks to speak of. There are no stores within driving distance.

We were not vigilant and allowed ourselves to get dragged into a lifestyle that is dependent on cars. Short of razing entire neighborhoods to start again, it's just plain going to take some time to figure out how to go back to other methods.

You can see it starting in newer development here in town. Chamblee, fairly near me, is developing very sensibly, with townhouses and lofts within easy walking distance of the train, with restaurants and small businesses on the lower floors, with a farmer's market where most people could walk and elder day care center, and so forth. There are similar places cropping up around town.

But for most of us, living in the older areas of town, we are pretty much stuck with what we have.

When someone can explain to me how I can get my daughter from our home in DeKalb County to neighboring Gwinett County on public transport to get to her dance studia, well, I'm dying to hear your solution. There isn't anything between here and Norcross, and there's no place to walk or bike if you wanted to.

It isn't a matter of convenience.

It's a matter of NONEXISTENCE.

 

[FFH]

Over here in SoCal, we are a few cents shy of paying $3.50 for regular. A new record high. It's been the same thing year after year. Gas prices soar to a new unbelievable amount due to "refinery problems" or "terrorism" or "war with Iran" or "hurricanes" and then and the end of the business year these same gas companies are posting record breaking profits.
:computer:

Does anyone else see a pattern? Is anyone else sick of this? Am I missing something? Am I ignorant about this matter? Are you sick of me asking questions yet?

Don't worry, they are working on new forms of ethanol, which most new cars are already designed to run on.

There is a prophecy that states that gas prices will come down to the dollar range again. This may be due to the competition from ethanol companies...

Chevron is making deals with a company out of California called Convergence Ethanol, (CETH Nasdaq ticker symbol) which has purchased an ethanol refinery in Canada, already set up to convert wood chips into ethanol, using the same process oil refineries use to convert oil into gas.

The stock price is at about 25 cents, I will be purchasing this stock in the next few months.

But for now I'm looking into this stock. Octillian Corp. (OCTL Nasdaq ticker symbol) a spray on chemical that utilizes common household windows to convert sunlight into electricity. The stock is around a dollar and is projected to rise to 7 dollars within the year or next year...

Invest in energy stocks..

Don't worry these ridiculous gas prices won't last.

 

[Yeshua_Lives]

Over here in SoCal, we are a few cents shy of paying $3.50 for regular. A new record high. It's been the same thing year after year. Gas prices soar to a new unbelievable amount due to "refinery problems" or "terrorism" or "war with Iran" or "hurricanes" and then and the end of the business year these same gas companies are posting record breaking profits.
:computer:

Does anyone else see a pattern? Is anyone else sick of this? Am I missing something? Am I ignorant about this matter? Are you sick of me asking questions yet?

Could be Bush and his buddies cashing in one last time before they leave office.

 

[Mister_T]

Somebody is indeed making a profit. The past three years, gas companies have had record breaking profits. Three years ago I was paying around $1.90 a gallon. Now I'm paying 3.53 a gallon. Every year gas goes up to a new, outstanding price and every year gas companies are reporting a new, outstanding record breaking profit. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's going on.

Every time the U.S. has a dissagreement with Ira n, oil price shoot up because of "fear." It's a big, stinking, load of horse manure. With all of this profit gas companies are experiencing, you'd think they would use that money fix their refinery "problems" after three years.

And peoples disgust with oil companies has nothing to do with "hating the man."
It has to do with the monopolization and obvious exploitation of a product that has no real alternative.

Looks like they're starting early this year......:computer:

 

[yossarian22]

OPEC finally got their act together. Fuggin price gouging. 18 years ago, oil went for $10 a barrel because none of the OPEC nations trusted each other. If they actually maxed out production, the cost would probably be hovering around $5 a barrel instead of $5 a gallon.
And now the genius politicians are having the government buy up corn for ethanol production, causing food prices to skyrocket.
Wheat is, what, $18 a bushel now?

 

[Mister_T]

Oil prices spike to record $105.97 - Yahoo! News

Looks like we'll be at $4 a gallon sooner than later. If it's not "tension with Iran" or "refinery problems," it's "the declining dollar" and "surprise drop in crude supplies." What's next? "It's day light savings time!" Or how about "Patrick Swayzie has cancer, $6 a barrel!!" It's too bad there are no price gouging laws against oil companies (how convienent). Then we would see an end to this steamy pile of manure.

 

[Mister_T]

Exxon/Mobil's profit earnings for 2007 which broke it's previous record set the year before. This is a yearly trend.

Exxon Mobil's Profit in 2007 Tops $40 Billion - washingtonpost.com

 

[Sonic247]

This is just an ignorant statement but with diffrent gas station being next to each other and having basically the same prices, did anyone ever wonder if they are really all the same company and were just trying to look seperate.

 

[Sonic247]

Or maybe not, I just found this article about two competing gas stations, someone got shot over a 3 cent price change- Offbeat News: Detroit Gas War Turns Deadly, Station Owner Killed Over 3 Cent Price Bump

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is just an ignorant statement but with diffrent gas station being next to each other and having basically the same prices, did anyone ever wonder if they are really all the same company and were just trying to look seperate.

A lot are: Exxon & Mobil are one example; there are probably others. Also, in some places, I'm sure that even with separate gas brands owned by different companies, the individual franchise holder might be the same for several stations in the same town, kind of like car dealers.

However, an oligopoly tends to create a situation where prices all settle out at some point above the equilibrium for a freely competitive market, so they don't have to be actively colluding for prices to be somewhat inflated.

 

[Mister_T]

Today's excuse for yet another record breaking day in oil prices (despite declining demand): "Employers cut 63,000 jobs!!!"

NEW YORK - Oil prices jumped to a new record above $106 Friday but extended their recent pattern of choppy trading after a weak jobs report convinced many traders that the Federal Reserve's interest rate-cutting campaign will continue.

Employers cut 63,000 jobs in February, the biggest drop in five years, the Labor Department said Friday. Investors can react to such news in one of two ways: by selling on the prospect that the economy, and demand for oil, is cooling, or by buying on a conviction that bad economic data makes it more likely the Fed will cut rates.

Oil gyrates, but hits new record - Yahoo! News


When will it end. :banghead3

 

[Reverend Rick]

When will it end. :banghead3

When we build more refineries and drill for more domestic oil. Or, we could ween ourselves off of fossil fuel. You could be in my shoes T, My house boat has a 600 gallon diesel fuel cell and marina fuel has another dollar surcharge on top of spot price.

Another advantage will be less traffic and shorter lines at the drive thru.

 

[Mister_T]

Last week: "The U.S. dollar is declining and the conflict in Venezuela has us worried. Time to raise the price yet again!"

This week: "The U.S. dollar has stabilized for the time being and tensions in Venezuela have calmed down....so what! $108.00 a barrell!!

NEW YORK - Gasoline prices were poised Monday to set a new record at the pump, having surged to within half a cent of their record high of $3.227 a gallon. Oil prices, meanwhile, surged above $108 to a new inflation-adjusted record and their fifth new high in the last six sessions on an upbeat report on wholesale inventories.

The strong sales report suggested to oil traders that the struggling economy may be doing better than thought.


Energy investors shrugged off a relative stabilization of the dollar and a cooling in tensions between Venezuela and its neighbors Colombia and Ecuador.

Gas prices near records, following oil - Yahoo! News

Forget oil, these guys should get in the market of manure since that's all they seem to produce.

See you tomorrow with your daily dose of horse hockey!

 

[Comet]

Gas prices here have jumped up to $3.34-$3.40 a gallon already! The news says it will hit $4.00/gallon by the end of summer here..... YIKES!

 

[Melissa G]

read this today: Crude oil rose above $108 a barrel in New York to a record, and prices are heading to $120 a barrel.

Also…
Billionaire investor Wilbur Ross, says he sees bank failures ahead, as well as, doesn’t think the U.S. economy will recover any time soon. Ross's comments echo those made by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, who told a Senate committee on Feb. 28, that some smaller regional banks that heavily invested in real estate could go under.

Economic collapse , is it in imminent in the West ? It's a real possibility !

Melissa G