Smritis and Hinduism

[Satsangi]

There is a lot of "Smriti bashing" going on all across various topics. So, I thought of starting this thread in a hope that people will have a healthy debate and post their views. There are many Smritis in Hinduism written by many rishis. All these are the great sages in Hinduism and the Smritis have been attributed to their names. So please be careful before you contradict!

Manu Smriti
Yajnavalkya Smriti
Parasara Smriti
Vishnu Smriti
Daksha Smriti
Samvarta Smriti
Vyasa Smriti
Harita Smriti
Satatapa Smriti
Vasishtha Smriti
Yama Smriti
Apastamba Smriti
Gautama Smriti
Devala Smriti
Sankha-Likhita Smriti
Usana Smriti
Atri Smriti
Saunaka Smriti
Yuga Dharma, Shruti
Parashar Smriti

Regards,

 

[Satsangi]

The laws of Manu are intended for the Satya Yuga; those of Yajnavalkya are for the Treta Yuga; those of Sankha and Likhita are for the Dvapara Yuga; and those of Parasara are for the Kali Yuga.

 

[Satsangi]

Forgot Pracetas Smriti

 

[Metempsychosis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda_Purana

 

[Satsangi]

By Smritis I meant Dharmashashtras which basically outlay the Varnashram Dharmas. These are looked upon by many if not most as "irrelevant, outdated, a shame on Hinduism, orthodox, not modern etc....." I have a question- the Rishis who wrote the Dharmashashtras- were they fools and are we better than them??

Regards

 

[Metempsychosis]

Wat is proof that the scripture has not been changed?The scripture does not look divine at all.Who wrote that is a secondary question.

Read garuda purana.
Booyoga: Shameless behaviour, mixing with unchaste women & leading the life without any motive
Punishment:
Biting by poisonous insects and animals

Paribathana Drinking and making others drink alcohol
Punishment:
Drininking lava
:bow:
It is worse than Islamic hellfire.

""From a Kshatriya and the daughter of a Sudra springs a being, called Ugra, resembling both a Kshatriya and a Sudra, ferocious in his manners, and delighting in cruelty.

60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the faults of his (father), be they small or great.

61. But that kingdom in which such bast****, sullying (the purity of) the castes, are born, perishes quickly together with its inhabitants."

239.A Kandala, a village pig, a Coc*, a dog, a menstruating woman, and a eunuch must not look at the Brahmanas while they eat."
---Manu smirti


--->No wonder there is caste system in Hinduism.I clearly understand why shudras convert to christianity in mass numbers.



http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu/manu10.htm
At one end in Hinduism there is advaita vedanta and at the other end they talk about "criminal intercourse".Religion should confine itself to metaphysics.Hinduism can claim that it doesnt support caste system.But then it is only Buddhism ,jainism or Sikhism can said to be free from discrimination.

I would like to know how you find out varna(how would you judge inherent Qualities),and what is your point in segregating society in varnas?

 

[Andal]

Wat is proof that the scripture has not been changed?The scripture does not look divine at all.Who wrote that is a secondary question.

Read garuda purana.
Booyoga: Shameless behaviour, mixing with unchaste women & leading the life without any motive
Punishment:
Biting by poisonous insects and animals

Paribathana Drinking and making others drink alcohol
Punishment:
Drininking lava
:bow:
It is worse than Islamic hellfire.

""From a Kshatriya and the daughter of a Sudra springs a being, called Ugra, resembling both a Kshatriya and a Sudra, ferocious in his manners, and delighting in cruelty.

60. Even if a man, born in a great family, sprang from criminal intercourse, he will certainly possess the faults of his (father), be they small or great.

61. But that kingdom in which such bast****, sullying (the purity of) the castes, are born, perishes quickly together with its inhabitants."

239.A Kandala, a village pig, a Coc*, a dog, a menstruating woman, and a eunuch must not look at the Brahmanas while they eat."



--->No wonder there is caste system in Hinduism.I clearly understand why shudras convert to christianity in mass numbers.



The Laws of Manu X
At one end in Hinduism there is advaita vedanta and at the other end they talk about "criminal intercourse".Religion should confine itself to metaphysics.Hinduism can claim that it doesnt support caste system.But then it is only Buddhism ,jainism or Sikhism can said to be free from discrimination.

I would like to know how you find out varna(how would you judge inherent Qualities),and what is your point in segregating society in varnas?

I have no problem at all with puranic scriptures. It's important to remember that not everyone accepts every single Purana. Traditions pick and choose what they want. The Garuda Purana is pretty big among Dvaitas but I don't know any one else who follows it to an extreme level.

In terms of the Hells, remember too that it isn't permanent. After death one goes to the Narakaloka or Devaloka depending on their karma but after a short time they are reborn somewhere else.

Aum Hari Aum

 

[Satsangi]

The Scriptures (Dharma Shashtras) are not made "to appear divine." The missionaries do not like Lord Shiva as he "kills people" in their words- does Lord Shiva appear "divine" when He annihilates the Worlds? The scriptures or God may not "appear divine" the way our MIND likes!

The Dharma Shashtras are just a code of conduct. In my opinion/understanding, the Brahmins are people with predominance of Sattva, Kshatriyas have Rajo guna, Vaishya have a mix of Sattav and Rajas and Shudras are people with predominant Tamas guna. Everyone has all 3 gunas, but I am just talking about predominance. What is wrong if a Sattva guna person marries another with Sattva guna only and with same family background/upbringing rather than another person with tamas guna? In fact, it is correct that a child born from a Rajas guna predominent person and tamas predominent person could be ferocious and cruel.

Does not the Christianity mention Hell and treatment in hell? Sharia gives those punishments right here on earth. In fact, I think no religion endorses alcohol or any addictive substances. The Jains are strict vegetarians too. The Buddhism is more like a path like Jainism or Sikhism rather than something broad like Sanatana Dharma. All these do have their own Dharma Shashtras too if u do not pick and choose only one type of teaching.

Regards,

 

[Andal]

The Scriptures (Dharma Shashtras) are not made "to appear divine." The missionaries do not like Lord Shiva as he "kills people" in their words- does Lord Shiva appear "divine" when He annihilates the Worlds? The scriptures or God may not "appear divine" the way our MIND likes!

The Dharma Shashtras are just a code of conduct. In my opinion/understanding, the Brahmins are people with predominance of Sattva, Kshatriyas have Rajo guna, Vaishya have a mix of Sattav and Rajas and Shudras are people with predominant Tamas guna. Everyone has all 3 gunas, but I am just talking about predominance. What is wrong if a Sattva guna person marries another with Sattva guna only and with same family background/upbringing rather than another person with tamas guna? In fact, it is correct that a child born from a Rajas guna predominent person and tamas predominent person could be ferocious and cruel.

Does not the Christianity mention Hell and treatment in hell? Sharia gives those punishments right here on earth. In fact, I think no religion endorses alcohol or any addictive substances. The Jains are strict vegetarians too. The Buddhism is more like a path like Jainism or Sikhism rather than something broad like Sanatana Dharma. All these do have their own Dharma Shashtras too if u do not pick and choose only one type of teaching.

Regards,

I don't think we can tell how much of each guna a person has, especially since not everyone lives within the birth based caste system. therefore it makes determining appropriate marriage partners difficult. Also not everything in life is predetermined by karma and thus gunas. We are given a choice in every action.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying though. Actions do have consequences. To be honest, the punishments in the Garuda Purana sound much more humane than what is found in some of the Buddhist texts regarding this (mainly the K****igarbha Sutra)

The Smrti texts contain so much more than this though. They detail ways of experiencing the pure bliss and love of God. That is far more important to me than the hell part.

Aum Hari Aum

 

[Metempsychosis]

Can u please describe how to find ones varna?Its obviously not based on birth.It should not be based on occupation ,because Sattva guna may be predominant in carpenters too.

I accept the guna and all.But finding varna is next to impossible,during the current time,when the head of states themselves are shudras.

 

[Satsangi]

I agree that not all is determined by the gunas and karmas. But these makes your essentual make up or Svabhava and mostly ones action are consistent with their Svabhava. I think Anti Religion mentioned about the Saptarishi way of finnding ones Varna. A routine way of finding the predominant Gunas is just watch a person's actions. For example, in any Satsang organization, there will be people who are engrossed in God during Bhajans and their life styles are also predominantly spiritual- these are people with predominent Sattva. Some people keep alcohol and partying as their lifestyle- these are predominantly rajas guna people. Some are just plain criminals - they are predominently tamas guna people. The qualities of a Sattvic person are Sham, daam, kshama, titiksha etc. The qualities of a rajasic person are bravery (shaurya), persistence/patience (dhairya) etc. The qualities of a tamasic person are laziness, cruelty etc

I do not necessarily agree that birth does not influence the Gunas of prople and hence their Varna. There are two components which can influence in scientific terms- genetic and environment. In most case cases (not all) the Sattvic parents with a Sattvic lifestyle rear sattvic children. There are always exceptions to any rule e.g Ravana.

Being Head of a State has nothing to do with Varna, in fact, having a criminal resumee is a requirement become a local politician nowadays. And this is going to get worse only. I wonder in what way the present political system is better?

Regards,

 

[Metempsychosis]

I think Anti Religion mentioned about the Saptarishi way of finding ones Varna. A routine way of finding the predominant Gunas is just watch a person's actions.

Astrological methods are not the concrete ones.There wont be any takers(other than theists) for such methods.

For example, in any Satsang organization, there will be people who are engrossed in God during Bhajans and their life styles are also predominantly spiritual- these are people with predominent Sattva.

But then a person suddenly changes ,the gunas change too.Guna is transient thing.

 

[santdasji]

Yes why these gunas changes are explained though. Like sangh (association), location etc. So those who are predominantly spiritual and mostly in the mode of satva..learn these ways and try and stay away and beware of places where the gunas can change them for the worse.

 

[Metempsychosis]

How can Hindus stratify a society based on changing gunas?

 

[Satsangi]

The Gunas can take predominence based on the environment e.g Sattva guna is not likely to be predominent if u are in a night club. However, the Karmic Vasana which makes ones Svabhava does not change and this is the basis of finding one's predominant Guna of the Svabhava.

One way to classify the society is based on occupation; the underlying thinking is that one would choose an occupation based on underlying Svabhava. Since occupation in olden days was passed on from father to son, I think the caste system came into existence.

Regards

 

[Metempsychosis]

Karmic vasanas are impossible to determine convincingly. Buddha married ,and was living a rajasic life for some time ,but still got enlightened.

Finding varna based on occupation is lame.Social system based on any religion is most foolish thing to do.I dont want to discuss this anymore,nor do I have to convince others.

 

[santdasji]

Buddha was the incarnation of God. So we cant question Him and His ways as they are divine. But you may talk upon the life of other bhakts. But those who live rajasic or tamsic and then change for the good means they can easily be elightened.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Buddha was the incarnation of God. So we cant question Him and His ways as they are divine. But you may talk upon the life of other bhakts. But those who live rajasic or tamsic and then change for the good means they can easily be elightened.

yes,Thats wat I am saying,grouping based on varnas is may become a problem,because varnas change often.

 

[Satsangi]

For most people; they do not change their inner nature or Svabhava very often. There are few who can become Valmiki from "Valio the thief". Some kind of social system is an integral part of any society in any part of the world; it is a human nature and will stay whether we like it or not.

 

[santdasji]

For most people; they do not change their inner nature or Svabhava very often. There are few who can become Valmiki from "Valio the thief". Some kind of social system is an integral part of any society in any part of the world; it is a human nature and will stay whether we like it or not.

i would have to agree.