Sister Beck's Talk

[nutshell]

To me, it sounds like she's trying to elevate the status of homemaking out of the drudgery that it's often seen as, and point out the vital component that it plays in spirituality. And where does she say that men are not supposed to help in the homemaking?

And I think she is doing the complete opposite. Rather than elevating women/mothers, she brings them down by reminding them to do the dishes and cook and clean. While she doesn't expressly state that men are not supposed to do this, by identifying these chores as a part of a sacred duty, the claim is there by implication.

Consider the reverse. If men were told it was their sacred duty to go out and work to support the family, would the general LDS population say Oh, this means women too.
Very unlikely.

 

[DeepShadow]

Yeah, well as I said before, I think this would have been a vastly different talk if she had just given it in Relief Society. Given as it was to the body of the church, I agree with you.

 

[Sola'lor]

she brings them down by reminding them to do the dishes and cook and clean.

I'd like to see a house where nobody does dishes, nobody cleans, and nobody cooks. Those things are vital for the running of a house. They are some of the most basic things that must be done.

Just curious, if the above tasks bring women down, what tasks should she have said that elevate women?

 

[nutshell]

I'd like to see a house where nobody does dishes, nobody cleans, and nobody cooks. Those things are vital for the running of a house. They are some of the most basic things that must be done.

Those things are vital to running a house, but that doesn't mean they are some part of a sacred calling.

Just curious, if the above tasks bring women down, what tasks should she have said that elevate women?

The above tasks don't bring women down. Claiming those tasks are a part of a woman's sacred calling is what brings women down.

 

[Katzpur]

Just curious, if the above tasks bring women down, what tasks should she have said that elevate women?

I don't think there are tasks that elevate or denegrade. To me, that's the whole point. Like you said, all of these tasks need to be done. Most of them are not particularly enjoyable. But to describe them as tasks that women have some sort of a divine calling to perform is what bothered me.

 

[Sola'lor]

The above tasks don't bring women down. Claiming those tasks are a part of a woman's sacred calling is what brings women down.

So whos calling should they be part of? They have to be part of somebody's calling.If you lead a household those tasks have to be done. Mother or father, husband or wife, those tasks are part of their callings.

I'm going to argue those those tasks do elevate. They elevate because it shows that a person has reached a point of greater responsibility. They have progressed to become leaders of a household. THus with this progression they are in a higher state than they were when they weren't responsible for these tasks.

 

[nutshell]

So whos calling should they be part of? They have to be part of somebody's calling.If you lead a household those tasks have to be done. Mother or father, husband or wife, those tasks are part of their callings.

It's NOT part of some calling. It's just a menial job that needs to get done and each household should determine for itself how best to get it done. It might mean the woman does it all or the man does it all or they share the responsibility or the kids pitch in or they have a maid, etc. etc.

 

[WillowTheWhisp]

I was directed to this forum purely by reference to this thread and am quite shocked on reading some of the things which have been written, not because people have disagreed with what Sister Beck said in her talk but by the things which have been said about Sister Beck.

I loved her talk. I thought it was particularly relevant in a time when there are many selfish people who don't seem to care what their children are doing or even where they are.

I'm nowhere near perfect but I consider my role as a mother to be over and above any other role I may have in society.

 

[Bishka]

I was directed to this forum purely by reference to this thread and am quite shocked on reading some of the things which have been written, not because people have disagreed with what Sister Beck said in her talk but by the things which have been said about Sister Beck.

Could point out where we talked about Sister Beck? Thank you.

 

[Starfish]

After hearing about the controversy, I carefully reread her talk. I completely support what she said and admire her courage for speaking the truth. In fact I've never heard anything in Gen. Conf. I've ever disagreed with, though sometimes I feel some guilt and know it's time to make some improvements.
To speak before the entire Church, would be overwhelming and extremely humbling. Who wouldn't spend a lot of time fasting and praying for help? This was her inspiration and maybe we need to listen.

 

[nutshell]

So, Starfish, you agree it's a woman's sacred duty to do the dishes?

 

[Starfish]

So, Starfish, you agree it's a woman's sacred duty to do the dishes?

Nutshell, Her duty is maintaining a "house of order". Her duty is to see that her children are taught basic skills. Washing dishes is one basic skill and also necessary, among many chores, in a house of order. I wouldn't say dish washing is a sacred duty. But it is necessary.
I raised a family, so I'm familiar with housework. It's monotonous, boring and has to be done over and over. But my spirit felt in turmoil when my house was a mess. Orderliness seems to bring peace, at least to me. Did I feel like a slave? Not really. Nor was I the only one washing those dishes. We took turns. But it did fall on me to make sure they were done. I did what I did out of love for my family and enjoyment of my home.
You sound a little resentful. If so, why?

 

[Katzpur]

Nutshell, Her duty is maintaining a "house of order". Her duty is to see that her children are taught basic skills. Washing dishes is one basic skill and also necessary, among many chores, in a house of order. I wouldn't say dish washing is a sacred duty. But it is necessary.
I raised a family, so I'm familiar with housework. It's monotonous, boring and has to be done over and over. But my spirit felt in turmoil when my house was a mess. Orderliness seems to bring peace, at least to me. Did I feel like a slave? Not really. Nor was I the only one washing those dishes. We took turns. But it did fall on me to make sure they were done. I did what I did out of love for my family and enjoyment of my home.
You sound a little resentful. If so, why?

Hi, Starfish. Welcome to RF!

 

[Starfish]

Hi, Starfish. Welcome to RF!

Thanks! I look forward to many new friendships here.

 

[nutshell]

I wouldn't say dish washing is a sacred duty.

This is exactly what Beck said. Reread the talk (again) if you like.

 

[Starfish]

This is exactly what Beck said. Reread the talk (again) if you like.

I'm too new here to be allowed to paste the portion of her talk that I assume that you refer to. But I have the talk in front of me.
Specifically, what is it you object to? Can you give me a direct quote? Thanks.

 

[tnutz]

I hate to see so much disagreement and hard feelings between members of the same faith. Just so you know my wife and I have been married 7 years, and have two boys(5 and 3). Motherhood is not something that comes naturally to my wife, it is a daily struggle. She struggles with patience, anxiety, depression, and lack of self worth. Many days, she wants to take my boys to a daycare, and get a job to help with bills. It has caused some struggles, and hence we are waiting to try for another, because WE don't feel it's the right time. Maybe we won't have anymore, we have to pray and try our best to gauge when we will be able to provide a stable and nourishing environment for another child.
My wife is very intelligent, and has excelled at every job she has ever worked. She had two years of college under her belt, and a good job when she became pregnant with our first, (5 1/2 months into our marriage, boy were we not prepared!) My wife hears all of the time about how her friends have their degree's and great jobs. She feels like the world looks down on her for being "just a mother". On the same side she feels pressure from the "Molly Mormons" about when are you having another child, is your home spotless, have you read the entire Ensign this month, ect. Man, I am glad I am not a woman!.
I guess what I really want to say is that like many things in the Church, each individual knows when they are doing their best. We can receive personal revelation for ourselves and our families. It is definitely not one size fits all, and even though some are intrepeting Sister Beck's talk that way, I don't that is the message she meant for every individual. Only you and the Lord know if you are doing your best, or are capable of having a family, ect. My wife and I were not offended nor did we disagree with Sister Beck's talk, my wife would love to be "Super Mormon Wife" with lots of perfect children, spotless house, delicious 5 course meals every night, just as I would love to be "Super Mormon Husband" have no debt, have the scriptures memorized, conducting perfect family home evenings, ect. Until then, we will keep trying.
Finally, I don't think there is anything sacred about dishes or other housework. My wife expects me to help out with the kids and housework when I am home, just like I expect her to be doing productive things while I am at work. Both companions giving 100% and not saying "That's your job, not mine". Sometimes I need a guys night out, or Church basketball, and I encourage my wife and any other wife to take some time for yourselves, or you will go insane.

 

[Bishka]

my wife would love to be "Super Mormon Wife" with lots of perfect children, spotless house, delicious 5 course meals every night, just as I would love to be "Super Mormon Husband" have no debt, have the scriptures memorized, conducting perfect family home evenings, ect. Until then, we will keep trying.

What about the women who don't want to be "Super Mormon Wife?" :run:

 

[tnutz]

What about the women who don't want to be "Super Mormon Wife?" :run:

Good Question, I guess Iwould ask what is it that you don't like or want to be? Is it the stereotype?

 

[Bishka]

Good Question, I guess Iwould ask what is it that you don't like or want to be? Is it the stereotype?

I just want to be me. I don't like being like that. I am the complete opposite of "Super Mormon Wife"