Signs of Holy Spirit guidance in Christians?

[Sargonski]

They're correlations because of the narrow fit (6 data points). The contextual of testimony about the Messiah emphasises that, since there are only three chapters from Psalms which mention unjustified hatred.

Again:

John 15​
23	He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24	If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25	But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26	But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Psalms 35​
19	Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: [neither] let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.

Psalm 35 relates to the Messiah because of the trap of entanglement, the false testimony against him, his behaviour towards Judas Iscariot, the appeal against the boast of his enemies, the symbolism of the serpent, and the righteous servant of Isaiah 53.

https://hosea6.tech/pages/twin.html#s17

Look -- as stated previously .. lots of folks hated without cause throughout history .. but perhaps more damning .. no shortage of NT authors quoting the OT now is there ? so no coincidence here either .. nevermind correlation

What part of "MelchiZedek .. did you not wish to respond to ? You wanted the divine I thought .. but now you ignore and dismiss .. stuck in this circular prophetic fallacy of your own creation..

Priest Forever in the Order of MelchiZedek .. what does this mean to an Ebionite .. .. !! and Prophecy ..

 

[Ebionite]

Look -- as stated previously .. lots of folks hated without cause throughout history

Straw man. The context of John 15 is about the written law of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

no shortage of NT authors quoting the OT now is there ?

Why would that be relevant?

What part of "MelchiZedek .. did you not wish to respond to ?

The irrelevant part.

stuck in this circular prophetic fallacy

You haven't identified any fallacy.

 

[Sargonski]

Straw man. The context of John 15 is about the written law of the Pharisees and Sadducees.


Why would that be relevant?


The irrelevant part.


You haven't identified any fallacy.

there is no strawman - you have not been accused of saying something you did not. Your fallacy is called "Non Sequitur" - A does not follow from B. and I explained exactly the false logic .. that some historic figure stating his enemies hated them in the past .. has no Prophetic relation ship to some folks hating Jesus. Your claim of correlation is false on this basis .. John 15 being about the law not changing this false logic.

Second.. you have failed to address MelchiZedek .. the Divine words you failed to find .. too occupied with resurrecting crucified position ..

 

[Ebionite]

here is no strawman - you have not been accused of saying something you did not.

No, a strawman doesn't necessarily involve an accusation. A strawman involes a mischaracterisation of an opposing argument. In this case it's:

that some historic figure stating his enemies hated them in the past .. has no Prophetic relation ship to some folks hating Jesus.

... because you're omitting the essential element of the set of correlating of points between the Psalms and the story of the gospels.

you have failed to address MelchiZedek

You have failed to show why it's relevant.

 

[Sargonski]

No, a strawman doesn't necessarily involve an accusation. A strawman involes a mischaracterisation of an opposing argument. In this case it's:


... because you're omitting the essential element of the set of correlating of points between the Psalms and the story of the gospels.


You have failed to show why it's relevant.

Your argument was not mischracterized - as you do not have a valid argument to begin with .. and if you claim something has been omitted in this desperate attempt to resurrect a crucified position .. then state what it is has been omitted .. and how this makes your claim true.

Something like "You omitted X and this makes Y true because" Running around naked crying strawman is not an argument for much Brother Eb.

Your last comment "Failed to show why its relevant" is perhaps a clue to this confusion. The conversation is about Divine Words from the God of Jesus. How is the identity/name of the God of Jesus not relevant. How is the fact that the God you are worshiping may well be Baalzebub
not relevant ?

I am not wanting to hear the divine words from Baalzebub Friend .. the name of this God you are talking about is relevant..

 

[Ebionite]

Your argument was not mischracterized

Like I said, you left out the essential elements or correlation. I'll post them in full this time instead of only the summary.

Psalm 35 relates to the Messiah because of the trap of entanglement, the false testimony against him, his behaviour towards Judas Iscariot, the appeal against the boast of his enemies, the symbolism of the serpent, and the righteous servant of Isaiah 53.

The trap of entanglement relates to the Pharisees and Herodians (Edom).

Psalms 35​
7	For without cause have they hid for me their net [in] a pit, [which] without cause they have digged for my soul.

Matthew 22​
15	Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in [his] talk.
16	And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any [man]: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17	Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18	But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?
19	Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20	And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
21	They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22	When they had heard [these words], they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Psalm 35 desribes false witnesses. Forbidding tribute to Caesar would have been seen as sedition, which was punishable by crucifixion.

Psalms 35​
11	False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge [things] that I knew not.

Luke 23​
2	And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this [fellow] perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.

Matthew 22​
17	Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

21	They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Matthew 26​
59	Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
60	But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61	And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

A reference to Judas Iscariot:

Psalms 35​
12	They rewarded me evil for good [to] the spoiling of my soul.

14	I behaved myself as though [he had been] my friend [or] brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth [for his] mother.

Matthew 26​
45	Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take [your] rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
46	Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.
47	And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
48	Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
49	And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
50	And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

Verse 16 could describe Paul's communion. Pharisees like Paul were described as hypocrites. The Hebrew word maowg (מעוג) can be translated as 'cake'.

Psalms 35​
16	With hypocritical mockers in feasts (מעוג), they gnashed upon me with their teeth.

Matthew 23​
13	But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Another reference to lions:

Psalms 35​
17	Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions.

The eyewitness claim of verse 21 is consistent with the appearance of success on the part of the persecutors, i.e. the crucifixon made it seem that Caiaphas' plan had been successfull.

The Hebrew word for swallow is bela (בלע). Bela son of Beor was the first king of Edom, which relates to the Herodians of verse 7 and to the pit. Swallow also relates to the sign of Jonah where the great fish swallows the prophet.

Psalms 35​
21	Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, [and] said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen [it].

25	Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up.

Genesis 36​
32	And Bela the son of Beor reigned in Edom: and the name of his city [was] Dinhabah.

John 11​
49	And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50	Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51	And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52	And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53	Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

The idea of being swallowed up also relates to the serpent:

Exodus 7​
12	For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.

Those who killed the prophets were called serpents:

Matthew 23​
31	Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32	Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33	[Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The serpent is a symbol of the crucifixion:

John 3​
14	And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The prosperity of the righteous servant relates to Messianic verses from Isaiah:

Psalms 35​
27	Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let YHWH be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

Isaiah 53​
11	He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12	Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Sargonski]

Like I said, you left out the essential elements or correlation. I'll post them in full this time instead of only the summary.

Psalm 35 relates to the Messiah because of the trap of entanglement, the false testimony against him, his behaviour towards Judas Iscariot, the appeal against the boast of his enemies, the symbolism of the serpent, and the righteous servant of Isaiah 53.

The trap of entanglement relates to the Pharisees and Herodians (Edom).

Psalms 35​
7	For without cause have they hid for me their net [in] a pit, [which] without cause they have digged for my soul.

Matthew 22​
15	Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in [his] talk.
16	And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any [man]: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17	Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18	But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?
19	Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20	And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
21	They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22	When they had heard [these words], they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Psalm 35 desribes false witnesses. Forbidding tribute to Caesar would have been seen as sedition, which was punishable by crucifixion.

Psalms 35​
11	False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge [things] that I knew not.

Luke 23​
2	And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this [fellow] perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.

Matthew 22​
17	Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

21	They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Matthew 26​
59	Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
60	But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61	And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

A reference to Judas Iscariot:

Psalms 35​
12	They rewarded me evil for good [to] the spoiling of my soul.

14	I behaved myself as though [he had been] my friend [or] brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth [for his] mother.

Matthew 26​
45	Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take [your] rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
46	Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.
47	And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
48	Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
49	And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
50	And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

Verse 16 could describe Paul's communion. Pharisees like Paul were described as hypocrites. The Hebrew word maowg (מעוג) can be translated as 'cake'.

Psalms 35​
16	With hypocritical mockers in feasts (מעוג), they gnashed upon me with their teeth.

Matthew 23​
13	But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Another reference to lions:

Psalms 35​
17	Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions.

The eyewitness claim of verse 21 is consistent with the appearance of success on the part of the persecutors, i.e. the crucifixon made it seem that Caiaphas' plan had been successfull.

The Hebrew word for swallow is bela (בלע). Bela son of Beor was the first king of Edom, which relates to the Herodians of verse 7 and to the pit. Swallow also relates to the sign of Jonah where the great fish swallows the prophet.

Psalms 35​
21	Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, [and] said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen [it].

25	Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up.

Genesis 36​
32	And Bela the son of Beor reigned in Edom: and the name of his city [was] Dinhabah.

John 11​
49	And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50	Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51	And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52	And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53	Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

The idea of being swallowed up also relates to the serpent:

Exodus 7​
12	For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.

Those who killed the prophets were called serpents:

Matthew 23​
31	Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32	Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33	[Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The serpent is a symbol of the crucifixion:

John 3​
14	And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The prosperity of the righteous servant relates to Messianic verses from Isaiah:

Psalms 35​
27	Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let YHWH be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

Isaiah 53​
11	He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12	Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

This is mind boggling .. nonsense .. throwing out passage after passage .. a whole page full .. none of which support or even relate your claims about the previous scripture which you claimed was prophetic.. and you have failed to address my comments on your previous claim.

I have not said there is nothing prophetic in the Bible .. what I said was that the verses you pointed out previously .. were not prophetic .. running around posting different passages which may or may not be prophetic .. does absolutely nothing to support your claim of Prophecy from previous passage. .. it is you going .. "Lets move on to the next one" .. prior to admitting your previous claim was unfounded.

What I have done was led you towards the Divine Word.. some of which is Prophetic .. but you wish to run from this Divine Scripture for some reason.

 

[Ebionite]

This is mind boggling .. nonsense

It's not my problem that you lack the critical skills to evaluate it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Signs of Holy Spirit guidance in Christians?

And how do the Pauline-Christians know that they are taking guidance from the Holy Spirit rather than they are taking guidance from the Devil , please, right??

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Yet, didn’t the credulous sinful Christians got deceived by sinful Paul:

1. as Paul was obsessed by the devil and he took guidance from the devil and faked a vision
2. as soon as he came to know that Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah survived a cursed death on the Cross
3. had migrated out from Judea , lest he is caught again and killed,
4. and out of the Roman Empire, out of Paul's hands to persecute Jesus and his true followers lest Jesus is caught again and killed?

Right?

Regards

 

[Sargonski]

It's not my problem that you lack the critical skills to evaluate it.

Now you are engaging in self deception and falsehood .. as I gave you the critical evaluation you are now claiming was not given .. because you have no ability to respond to the fact that your position was crucified. Your claim of Prophecy debunked .. the various fallacies in your argument laid bare.

You claim Divine Words - and Prophecy - but it turns out you do not know the name of the God of Jesus .. so do not know the God who is providing these "Divine Words" .. that you then go on to claim are prophetic.

What do you think is the Name of the God of Abraham and Jesus Brother Eb ?! If you wish us to heed the commands of this God .. we first have to know which God you are talking about otherwise it could be that you are leading down the dark path to Baalezebub ... hence all this deception in your last post.

Did you think the Wolf (in sheeps clothing) was going to show up with horns - red cape and a tail Brother Ed ? Did you think Greatest deceiver the world has ever known - one who has Divine powers - is going to be easy to figure out.

Which God are you speaking for Ed ... or is this lack of critical thinking skills not your problem either ?

 

[Ebionite]

Now you are engaging in self deception and falsehood

No, you're projecting.

 

[Ebionite]

as Paul was obsessed by the devil and he took guidance from the devil and faked a vision

Not exactly.
And YHWH said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, [which] shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword [shall be] upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
Zechariah 11:15-17

as soon as he came to know that Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah survived a cursed death on the Cross

It wasn't the Messiah on the cross, it was his twin.

Matthew 26​
31	Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Zechariah 13​
7	Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man (גבך) [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

1. had migrated out from Judea , lest he is caught again and killed,
2. and out of the Roman Empire, out of Paul's hands to persecute Jesus and his true followers lest Jesus is caught again and killed?

Pretty much.

Yet it pleased YHWH to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of YHWH shall prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:10

 

[Sargonski]

No, you're projecting.

Projecting what Brother Eb -- It is you who has been engaging in deception and fallacy ... then name calling when this deception laid bare .. projecting your lack of critical analysis onto others. Now desperately trying to deflect from your inability to give us the name of the God you supposedly worship .. and the fact that can not identify the source of these divine words.

I am not the one decieved by the words of the decepticon minions ... Priests of the Order of the Trickster God.. What is the name of this Divinity you are promoting ?

 

[Ebionite]

Projecting what Brother Eb -- It is you who has been engaging in deception and fallacy ... then name calling when this deception laid bare .. projecting your lack of critical analysis onto others. Now desperately trying to deflect from your inability to give us the name of the God you supposedly worship .. and the fact that can not identify the source of these divine words.

I am not the one decieved by the words of the decepticon minions ... Priests of the Order of the Trickster God.. What is the name of this Divinity you are promoting ?

Boring, ignored.

 

[Sargonski]

It wasn't the Messiah on the cross, it was his twin.

​

Jesus had a Twin ? Are you referring to the Twin Gods of the Priestly order of MelchiZedek ? Justice and Righteousness the Patron Gods of Jerusalem .. Jesus a symbolic Representation of these Twins .. in the Council of EL the Most High .. and Jerusalem the City of Peace .. making the Jesus then the Prince of Peace.

See how that all works Brother Eb ..

 

[Sargonski]

Boring, ignored.

I realize that having your tales of Prophecy turn out to be fantasy is Boring but, ignoring correction is not the path to enlightenment Brother Ed.
We have discovered you know not the name of your God .. surely it would be exciting to find out the God of the Priests of the Order of Melchi-Zedek would it not ? Do you not wish to know the identity of the God of Jesus ?

 

[Sargonski]

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Yet, didn’t the credulous sinful Christians got deceived by sinful Paul:

1. as Paul was obsessed by the devil and he took guidance from the devil and faked a vision
2. as soon as he came to know that Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah survived a cursed death on the Cross
3. had migrated out from Judea , lest he is caught again and killed,
4. and out of the Roman Empire, out of Paul's hands to persecute Jesus and his true followers lest Jesus is caught again and killed?

Right?

Regards

And do not forget the Martin Luther idol that folks worship .. the "Free Pass through Judgement" ideology .. aka "Sola Fide" - "Salvation by Faith Alone" ...do all the evil you wish but confess your sin at the end of days like Constantine .. and take the VIP entrance by-passing Judgement. "Just have Faith" .. and all will be yours.

We could call this Martin fellow one of Paul's demon spawn I suppose.... for as Our Lord Jesus states in Matt 7 - "By their Fruit you shall know them" the "Wolves in Sheeps Clothing" and hearken your eyes to Marty's famous Teatise "On the Jews and Their Lies" -- where he argues for Nazi Like treatment of the Jews .. and in fact his work was used by Adolf as religious justifiction for the final solution.

Thats the fellow we all should follow aye Lads ?? and Paul .. the fellow that tells us that Hitler was put here for our own good ..and we should not rebel .. but accept and submit to this leader put in place by God. .. Just follow the leader ... but in this case down the dark path ... the path of the Deceiver and not of the light.

 

[paarsurrey]

And do not forget the Martin Luther idol that folks worship .. the "Free Pass through Judgement" ideology .. aka "Sola Fide" - "Salvation by Faith Alone" ...do all the evil you wish but confess your sin at the end of days like Constantine .. and take the VIP entrance by-passing Judgement. "Just have Faith" .. and all will be yours.

We could call this Martin fellow one of Paul's demon spawn I suppose.... for as Our Lord Jesus states in Matt 7 - "By their Fruit you shall know them" the "Wolves in Sheeps Clothing" and hearken your eyes to Marty's famous Teatise "On the Jews and Their Lies" -- where he argues for Nazi Like treatment of the Jews .. and in fact his work was used by Adolf as religious justifiction for the final solution.

Thats the fellow we all should follow aye Lads ?? and Paul .. the fellow that tells us that Hitler was put here for our own good ..and we should not rebel .. but accept and submit to this leader put in place by God. .. Just follow the leader ... but in this case down the dark path ... the path of the Deceiver and not of the light.

So one agrees that it was devil's work what sinful Paul envisioned on road to Damascus or simply Paul faked the vision, right?
If that is the case, so must it be of the Pauline-Christianity people who follow Paul, they envision Devil but are under illusion that they are talking to some holy spirit, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So one agrees that it was devil's work what sinful Paul envisioned on road to Damascus or simply Paul faked the vision, right?
If that is the case, so must it be of the Pauline-Christianity people who follow Paul, they envision Devil but are under illusion that they are talking to some holy spirit, right?

Regards

I doubt Paul faked his vision. Hallucinations do happen. I've heard some medical professionals say that the fact that Paul saw a bright light is indicative of having a seizure.

 

[Vouthon]

I doubt Paul faked his vision. Hallucinations do happen. I've heard some medical professionals say that the fact that Paul saw a bright light is indicative of having a seizure.

The author of the authentic Pauline epistles comes across as a very sane and articulate individual.

He uses pesharim in his arguments, along with other techniques such as midrashes that would become staples in the later Talmudic literature.

The trend in modern scholarship, especially from Jewish scholars of New Testament such as Daniel Boyarin, Pamela Eisembaum, Amy-Jill Levine and Paula Fredriksen is to take Paul deadly seriously as an innovative thinker in his own cultural milieu of Second Temple Judaism.

He is, for example, the first Jewish writer we have who uses goyim to refer to "non-Jews" as an ethnic category rather than just meaning "the nations". He does this for rhetorical and apologetic purposes but the later rabbis of the amoraim and tannaim eras adopt the same approach.

Psychologists now take seriously the neurobiological reality of "mystical experiences" i.e. neuroimaging has evidenced that the brains of advanced meditators show a number of very unique functional changes in particular brain regions.

As such, Paul seems to have been what he presents himself as - a person that had a life transforming, neural-chemistry-altering spiritual experience which he struggled afterwards to both fully comprehend and explain in words but which radically changed the direction of his life and caused him to question his former religious convictions as a devout Pharisee and adopt those instead of the nascent Jesus sect he had previously persecuted.

In sum, the emerging consensus would now be that Paul was neither a liar nor mentally ill. He was simply a man of his time who interpreted his mystical experience and the resulting radical neuroplasticity it spawned according to the apocalyptic worldview current in his day.

Siddartha Gautama, the Buddha, interpreted his "nibbana" experience as signifying liberation from samsara, rebirth. That was according to the Vedic based sects of his day. Paul understood his experience against the backdrop of Second Temple Judaism and the Pharisaism of his upbringing and thought he'd found its meaning in the crucifixion of a recent messiah claimant from Galilee who had taught a socially subversive ethic of love even for enemies.

He tells us his story in his own words in Galatians (which is in part his effective mini-autobiography) and the vision of human universalism that his sense of subject/object "ego-death" (no longer "I") provoked in him:

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 2 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

Paul and the Other Apostles - Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. I went up in response to a revelation. Then I laid before them (though only in a private meeting with the acknowledged leaders) the gospel that I proclaim among the...

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You have heard, no doubt, of my earlier life in [Rabbinic] Judaism. I was violently persecuting the church of God and was trying to destroy it. 14 I advanced in Judaism beyond many among my people of the same age, for I was far more zealous for the traditions of my ancestors. 15 But when the one who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace was pleased 16 to reveal his Son to me,[c] so that I might proclaim him among the gentiles, I did not confer with any human, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterward I returned to Damascus [...]​

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We ourselves are Jews by birth and not gentile sinners, 16 yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through the faith of Jesus Christ [...] I have been crucified with Christ, 20 and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me [...]​

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As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise.​