Should we return to the gold standard?

[Sunstone]

Whether the poor and middle class can get a loan or makes it more difficult to get a job or a raise. How does this make sense at all?

You act like you have no grasp at all of the relationship between the availability of credit, an expanding economy, and the creation of jobs. I sincerely hope that's not so.

 

[Enoch07]

You act like you have no grasp at all between the availability of credit, an expanding economy, and the creation of jobs. I sincerely hope that's not so.

I understand it.

I also understand poor people don't get loans to open businesses.

Neither does most middle class people.

Usually it's business men and women, and they tend to be rich.

 

[Sunstone]

I understand it.

I also understand poor people don't get loans to open businesses.

Neither does most middle class people.

Usually it's business men and women, and they tend to be rich.

Have you ever tried to get a loan to open a business? I think you'll find you can call 100 banks and get 100 "nos". You're talking about the realm of venture capitalism here, not loans.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Excellent idea! It will benefit the rich and make the poor poorer! What more can anyone want in an economic policy?

Like it is now? ;0)

 

[Sunstone]

Like it is now? ;0)

So your solution to how it is now is to make it worse? I'm beginning to think you're a conservative.

 

[Enoch07]

Have you ever tried to get a loan to open a business? I think you'll find you can call 100 banks and get 100 "nos". You're talking about the realm of venture capitalism here, not loans.

Ok

Explain how a middle class or poor person getting a loan easier = more jobs, more raises. Because I don't see the correlation.

I am all for more jobs for everyone btw. So if your right I'd be on board!

 

[Sunstone]

Explain how a middle class or poor person getting a loan easier = more jobs, more raises. Because I don't see the correlation.

Try thinking of it this way. I'm a bank. I loan you ten thousand dollars for home improvements. You then either do the work yourself, or you hire someone to do it for you. If you hire someone, you are creating a job, or at least creating work, in economic terms. But even if you don't hire anyone and you do the work yourself, you are creating jobs or work if you buy any materials or tools to help you do the work. Because someone has to prepare those materials for you (wood doesn't come as 2x4s, for instance, but trees have to be turned into 2x4s). The upshot is, by loaning you ten grand for home improvements, I have enabled you to create work or jobs for people.

Credit is one of the biggest factors in the US economy -- and in virtually all industrial economies. Not too long ago, the Federal Reserve tightened the credit market just slightly. This slight tightening was done to slow the rate of inflation. It was also calculated that it would cost at least 400,000 US jobs. Basically, when the Fed raises interest rates, it reduces the amount of credit (lending) that goes on, and that costs jobs, even though it fights inflation.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There is not enough Gold in the world to cover the Dollar . The last time the dollar was redeemable at a fixed price for gold was in 1971 the fixed rate was $35 per oz, later raised to $34 in 1973. when it was decoupled. today Gold is valued at $1,286.90 per oz
There is no way any country could now fix the value of Gold.
The Gold standard is about fixing the price of Gold against your unit of currency, not fixing the value of the dollar against gold. it simply can not be done. The value of gold fluctuates independently and irrespective of the price of the dollar compared to other currencies.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is not enough Gold in the world to cover the Dollar . The last time the dollar was redeemable at a fixed price for gold was in 1971 the fixed rate was $35 per oz, later raised to $34 in 1973. when it was decoupled. today Gold is valued at $1,286.90 per oz
There is no way any country could now fix the value of Gold.
The Gold standard is about fixing the price of Gold against your unit of currency, not fixing the value of the dollar against gold. it simply can not be done. The value of gold fluctuates independently and irrespective of the price of the dollar compared to other currencies.

It makes me wonder what standard is suitable aside from gold?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Apparently this is the standard we go by now....

Fiat money - Wikipedia

 

[Shadow Wolf]

nor should any resources be considered scarce other than oil or coal. everything else is up in space. if we can land a robot on an asteroid we can land much more and mine those resources. people would rather just fund save the polar bears or some stupid gimmick instead of space exploration

Food, clean drinking water, clean air, trees, these things are not in space. We don't have these space programs and other planets, a great number of scientists scoff at the idea of space and other planets being our salvation, and we have to work with what we have.

no there is no trying to say anything. such companies PURPOSEFULLY. release small quantities of the diamond just to keep prices high,

Most diamonds are partially high in price because of the trail of blood that follows them. And while that is true that companies can artificially control demand to artificially inflate prices, diamonds are not needed like things such as rare earth, silicon, petroleum, platinum, copper, cotton, raw fiber, salt, and the other things people to some degree in various ways rely on daily.
[QUOTE="Enoch07, post: 5365838, member: 18111"]This is the double edged sword of our progress. More people are active longer and live longer now. Back when you was lucky to survive past 30 overpopulation was not a problem. Now more people live longer lives, the avg lifespan is easily doubled to 60+.[/QUOTE]
Actually, if people survived infancy and weren't killed in war, we've generally lived to be about 60 or older. The low average life expectancy comes because infant mortality was so much higher, as was the chances of meeting a violent end long before your time. Even during the 18th century, back when many people still think we had this low life expectancy, people lived long enough that it wasn't considered an issue making it law that you have to be at least 35 years-old to run for President of the United States (some of the Founders even made it past 80). Reducing infant mortality rate, decreased violence, and improvements in medicine haven't skyrocketed our life expectancy, it really only inch it up when you account for infant mortality rate and the higher risk of being killed in war (or as an act of war). Bug bites and other diseases aren't as threatening, which does help, but over all the idea we were lucky to survive past 30 is a myth that is not based in reality.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Whether the poor and middle class can get a loan or makes it more difficult to get a job or a raise. How does this make sense at all? Middle class can open small businesses with loans and offer a small amount of jobs. Poor people don't open businesses.

Granted it will make it harder for middle class to get a loan for a house for instance. The poor don't get loans anyways because they can't afford to pay back more money than they borrowed. If they could they wouldn't be poor.

Yes and if you can give the middle class and poor loans, what if they can't pay which is probably the likely scenario.

Remember the real estate crisis awhile back in years? They were giving out/approving loans like water and foreclosures came in like a river to everyone's dismay.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I also understand poor people don't get loans to open businesses.

I did. I wouldn't call it a thriving business, but an occasional 20-30 bucks in my pocket helps (especially when I make a bigger sale and can put around $100 or more in my pocket).

 

[Stevicus]

Try thinking of it this way. I'm a bank. I loan you ten thousand dollars for home improvements. You then either do the work yourself, or you hire someone to do it for you. If you hire someone, you are creating a job, or at least creating work, in economic terms. But even if you don't hire anyone and you do the work yourself, you are creating jobs or work if you buy any materials or tools to help you do the work. Because someone has to prepare those materials for you (wood doesn't come as 2x4s, for instance, but trees have to be turned into 2x4s). The upshot is, by loaning you ten grand for home improvements, I have enabled you to create work or jobs for people.

Credit is one of the biggest factors in the US economy -- and in virtually all industrial economies. Not too long ago, the Federal Reserve tightened the credit market just slightly. This slight tightening was done to slow the rate of inflation. It was also calculated that it would cost at least 400,000 US jobs. Basically, when the Fed raises interest rates, it reduces the amount of credit (lending) that goes on, and that costs jobs, even though it fights inflation.

It does make one wonder, though, why stuff is so expensive as to require so many people (and the country itself) to go into such massive debt. It makes it seem as if the economy is propped by "funny money."

Also, the push towards consumerism and getting people to "spend, spend, spend" - so that the economy keeps moving and growing - has also had an effect on the economy. We'll see more of it as we get closer to Christmas, which is what the retail industry seems to bank on.

I don't think we should return to the gold standard, but I can understand how some might feel that it would end a lot of the consumer craziness and bring the economy "back to basics," so to speak.

The thing is, if most people lived within their means, spent responsibly, saved their money, and took on little to no debt, that would also have an adverse effect on the economy as it is nowadays. What would happen to the retail industry if no one wanted to go Christmas shopping?

It does seem rather amazing that our economy can even survive while ostensibly hanging by a few threads. We keep hearing dire warnings that if one thing is out of place or if we change policy X, that it could lead to disastrous effects on the economy. A lot of people keep saying the economy is good, yet still seem awfully nervous about anyone who might rock the boat - which demonstrates the belief that the economy is in much more fragile and vulnerable shape than the powers that be would have us believe.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The thing is the gold standard kept fiscal responsibility in check. It's clear abuse and mismanagement had occurred which is why the country went into depression and thereby vilifying the gold standard which is why I think it's the objective of most of the elite to get rid of that.

Now we got the one percenters owning the majority of the world's money, job well done. Mission accomplished.

 

[Father]

Food, clean drinking water, clean air, trees, these things are not in space. We don't have these space programs and other planets, a great number of scientists scoff at the idea of space and other planets being our salvation, and we have to work with what we have.

actually, there is a mass of fresh water larger than our sun we have discovered.

Air is what? made of elements? that's up there too where do you think we got ours. our water was also brought to us by asteroids, we have already discovered 1000s of earth-like planets. granted the planets are really far away but we don't need to go that far for more resources, there are asteroids nearby with more gold than we have on earth, among other materials. the fact we have discovered water on mar's shows it not that rare and exists on comets and astroids too. now we will never get to access it if we keep wasting money on saving the polar bear's or funding grant scientists millions to tell us the world is on fire and have no actual solution how to fix it

 

[Shadow Wolf]

actually, there is a mass of fresh water larger than our sun we have discovered.

Now, go ask how many scientists think it's realistic to go mine it.