Senate votes to open arctic refuge to oil drilling

[jamaesi]

18 months is barely over a year.

 

[Green Gaia]

http://ga4.org/campaign/boycott?source=petitionsearch

 

[Saw11_2000]

Mr. John Browne, BP CEO

Heh.

18 months is not barely over a year, it's a year and a half.

Also, 18 months is still a lot you can't imagine how much oil the U.S. uses, and just 1.5 years because a treasure chest filled with oil.

 

[Druidus]

18 months of oil is enough for some ten billion drums of oil. The U.S. uses several million a day.

Used conservatively, the oil might provide 7.5% of the U.S.'s oil "needs" for twenty years. However, it won't be used conservatively, and, it won't even be used moderately. It'll be used as fast as possible, thus reducing the benefit it has.

 

[Saw11_2000]

Any way you look at it, ten billion drums of oil, is ten billion drums of oil.

Even if we do use it at a rapid pace, we will be entirely self sufficient for a year and a half.

 

[Green Gaia]

Any way you look at it, ten billion drums of oil, is ten billion drums of oil.

Even if we do use it at a rapid pace, we will be entirely self sufficient for a year and a half.

Oh whoopie!

And what happens after that 18 months? We won't still be "ready" with the alternatives and we will have destoryed untold acres of Alaskan environment THAT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME. :banghead3

 

[Druidus]

You misunderstand me. If you had those ten billion drums now, without having to extract them, one by one, then, maybe, they would let you be self-sufficient for 1.5 years.

As it stands, this won't really reduce how much the U.S. buys from overseas, not by any significant amount, if that. The world will continue on it's merry way, spiraling towards a self-induced oblivion, with no hope of some magical amelioritive effect pulling it back out, and why? For some oil, that it will use to push itself further down? The world is an alcoholic, and it's killing itself slowly. There are ways out, and people will keep trying to help, but ultimately, the help has to come from within the world, from within the masses.

You might think that humans are one of the greatest things around, but that's quite an egocentrist viewpoint. As it stands, humans are most akin to a plague; a virus. We eat, ravage, pillage, and destroy, all for our own gain, until finally, there's nothing left. Then, we die. Just like a virus.

 

[Saw11_2000]

So basically we should resist all structures everywhere?

My house lives on a road, they had to chop down trees for it, was it right? It will never be the same.

The mall was on a hill, so they levelled the hill for the mall.

It's unfortunate that we need to destroy nature to provide for our civilization, however, it is neccessary, IMO.

 

[Saw11_2000]

You misunderstand me. If you had those ten billion drums now, without having to extract them, one by one, then, maybe, they would let you be self-sufficient for 1.5 years.

As it stands, this won't really reduce how much the U.S. buys from overseas, not by any significant amount, if that. The world will continue on it's merry way, spiraling towards a self-induced oblivion, with no hope of some magical amelioritive effect pulling it back out, and why? For some oil, that it will use to push itself further down? The world is an alcoholic, and it's killing itself slowly. There are ways out, and people will keep trying to help, but ultimately, the help has to come from within the world, from within the masses.

You might think that humans are one of the greatest things around, but that's quite an egocentrist viewpoint. As it stands, humans are most akin to a plague; a virus. We eat, ravage, pillage, and destroy, all for our own gain, until finally, there's nothing left. Then, we die. Just like a virus.

Egocentrist towards humans, yes I would expect that since I am secular humanist.
I am curious as to why you would say that unless you are some alien species I don't know about. Are you not proud to be human, would you rather be someone/something else?

 

[Green Gaia]

And we're going to keep on destorying nature until we destory ourselves.....

But we probably won't be around by the time it gets to that, so I guess we don't have to worry about it, right? :sarcastic

 

[Saw11_2000]

Everything has a beginning and an end.

Our time here is finite, I just happen to think our experation will be later rather than sooner.

 

[Green Gaia]

Are you not proud to be human, would you rather be someone/something else?

I can't speak for Druidus, but I would rather we be responsible humans instead of just taking and destroying everything in our path. Live with nature instead of dominating and destroying her.

 

[Green Gaia]

Everything has a beginning and an end.

So it's Ok to use and abuse the Earth however we see fit no matter what the consequence? That makes no sense to me....

 

[Saw11_2000]

It would be great if we could co-exist, but it just can't happen, we colonize.

Of course, we can decrease the destruction and look for alternatives, which is what we are doing. The air is much cleaner now than it was in the 70s. I think things are improving rather than worsening.

 

[Green Gaia]

It would be great if we could co-exist, but it just can't happen, we colonize.

You're right, it can't happen.... not with that outlook anyway. I'd rather think that since we are a part of nature that we could find a way to live in harmony with it.... but call me crazy...

 

[BUDDY]

Have any of you been up to the arctic slope lately, and seen what is happening in the areas we are discussing here? While there is some wildlife, for the most part, it is desolate with nothing but tundra. There is a lot of sea life, but they have been cohabitating for quite some time with the platform out there. The area we are discussing drilling is huge, and I don't believe the drilling will create as many problems as some of you believe. At least it hasn't yet. The real problem comes with transport. There could be some issues there and a responsible attitude and forethought can prevent another Exxon Valdez from happening. We can do this, and do responsibly to avoid damaging the environment. It has been happening on the north slope for year.

 

[Saw11_2000]

You're right, it can't happen.... not with that outlook anyway. I'd rather think that since we are a part of nature that we could find a way to live in harmony with it.... but call me crazy...

Crazy crazy girl you. =D

I don't think there's much more to discuss, at least not from me. *white flag*

 

[Druidus]

Eerwed, I live on the tundra. Do you know where I am? Iqaluit, Nunavut. There are no trees, anywhere on this island, and we are the 3rd or 4th biggest island in the world. I understand the ecology of the tundra. Oil drilling will destroy it. Take my word for it. If you are disinclined to do so, research for yourself. (I know you live in Alaska, but you don't live in the true tundra. The true tundra is my backyard. Caribou have wandered the streets! There was a wolf in the playground! )

Profit, profit, profit, what we need is a Green Democratic Socialism. Maize, Feathers, Master Vigil, No*s, NetDoc, or Retrorich get my vote on that one. They'd do a hell of a lot better than the current "leader". I don't have any argument left here. You see, the very act of trying to express the fragility of the Earth has shown me the futility of trying to do so. It has depressed me. Good day.

 

[Saw11_2000]

Quite a few people could do a better job than the current leader, Kerry wasn't one of them.

But really I give up.

 

[BUDDY]

Eerwed, I live on the tundra. Do you know where I am? Iqaluit, Nunavut. There are no trees, anywhere on this island, and we are the 3rd or 4th biggest island in the world. I understand the ecology of the tundra. Oil drilling will destroy it. Take my word for it. If you are disinclined to do so, research for yourself.

Well, I can't argue with that. Well, I could, but my foot would be lodged deeper in my mouth if I were to continue.