InfidelRiot
Active Member
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"Seek me and you will fine me"..."Seek me and you won't find me"
- Thread starter InfidelRiot
- Start date
waitasec
Veteran Member
to be fair, the context of proverbs 1:28 is about a person who hates knowledge and did not choose to fear the lord...
and in matthew the context is the sermon on the mount were those he was speaking to wanted jesus' knowledge and chose to fear the lord
what gets me is, why would someone who doesn't understand is all of a sudden a person who hates knowledge as a person who understands that making a decision based on fear is the worst reason to make a decision...
i don't get it. unless this idea of god in proverbs is just a control freak.
and in matthew the context is the sermon on the mount were those he was speaking to wanted jesus' knowledge and chose to fear the lord
what gets me is, why would someone who doesn't understand is all of a sudden a person who hates knowledge as a person who understands that making a decision based on fear is the worst reason to make a decision...
i don't get it. unless this idea of god in proverbs is just a control freak.
InfidelRiot
Active Member
If knowledge is the central theme, then it is understandable. The history of the church teaches us that people were unable to read. They depended upon the church and other authorities to read for them. Reading IS fundamental in understanding and critical thinking. What gets me is how we have evolved to the point where religious individuals can read and fail to critically think.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
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context of proverbs:
28 At that time they will keep calling me, but I shall not answer; they will keep looking for me, but they will not find me, 29 for the reason that they hated knowledge, and the fear of Jehovah they did not choose. 30 They did not consent to my counsel; they disrespected all my reproof. 31 So they will eat from the fruitage of their way, and they will be glutted with their own counsels
This is speaking of people who reject Gods ways, the ones who prefer their own wisdom above Gods wisdom. God says one thing, but they reject it and change his standards and lower his moral laws to suit themselves... so he rejects them and they cannot come to know him.
but to those who sincerely seek God and strive to live by his laws, to those people he allows himself to be found.
InfidelRiot
Active Member
So why did you only touch upon the one proverb but not the contradicting scripture?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
because its not a contradiction. There are two different contexts. In proverbs, God says that those who reject his counsel will not find him.
But in matthew Jesus is speaking to people who were sincerely searching for God...people who were trying to obey God and wanted to obey Gods laws.
Jehovah is not a fool. He knews us all individually and he knows what motivates us. And he can tell a sincere seeker from an insincere one.
InfidelRiot
Active Member
What about proverb 8:17?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Prov 8:17 Those loving me I myself love, and those looking for me are the ones that find me. ... 20 In the path of righteousness I walk, in the middle of the roadways of judgment, 21 to cause those loving me to take possession of substance; and their storehouses I keep filled.
To those who have genuine love for God, he seeks them out and allows himself to be found by them. And when they do find him, they are richly rewarded with spiritual blessings, peace, happiness, joy, love etc.
But God cannot give such blessings to those who do not love him because to gain such blessings, one needs to get to know God and draw close to God in faith. And when they do, he gives them holy spirit....and its holy spirit that produces such blessings in the individuals life. But someone who is not sincere cannot receive Gods holy spirit.
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InfidelRiot
Active Member
Oh, isn't it wonderful how one finds one own interpretation in the time of need? In fact, is there not more than one interpretation for every scripture in the supposed holy book that one Christian has difficulty agreeing upon with another Christian?
If God had meant exactly what he meant, then why is it that man has to interpret what he meant?
If God had meant exactly what he meant, then why is it that man has to interpret what he meant?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
its true that people will interpret things differently....but we all read it the same way.
Look at the context of both scriptures and you will see that in proverbs, God is talking about one type of person, and in Matthew Jesus is speaking about another kind of person.
Anyway, if you read the scriptures yourself you will surely use your own powers of reason to work out what is being said....read the passage with the surrounding verses and the context will become clearer.
waitasec
Veteran Member
how does one measure that exactly?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
measure what? the blessings, or the sincerity of a persons love?
waitasec
Veteran Member
the sincerity of a persons love
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
only God measures that...he knows our thoughts and intentions so he can see the sincerity of every individual.
And when he sees it, he draws them to him according to 2Chronicals 16:9 For, as regards Jehovah, his eyes are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.
Isn't Jesus God? I think you should either substitute the word Jesus with God or vice versa.
Given:Given the thoughtless OP, you appear to be equaly capable of avoiding critical thought.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Not according to the scriptures. God has a name in the scritpures...in hebrew it is Yahweh (or Jehovah in english) But Jesus name in hebrew is Yeshua (Jesus in english)
And in the hebrew scriptures, only Yahweh/Jehovah is given the title 'El shaddai' meaning 'the almighty'
So Jesus is not God Almighty. And when Jesus taught his disciples to pray, he told them to pray to the Father in heaven....not to himself.
There is no consensus on the original meaning of El Shaddai much as there is no consensus on the original meaning of YHWH. Pretending otherwise is unhelpful.
Edited to add:
The JPS Commentary to Exodus 6:3 notes:
El Shaddai ... Although this divine Name is usually translated "God Almighty," there are no convincing traditions as to its meaning and little etymological justification for that particular rendering.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
ElShaddai is not the meaning of YHWH it means El (God) Shaddai (Almighty)
YHWH is causative form of the Hebrew verb ha·wah′ (become)... when applied to God it means he can 'become whatever he chooses'
He revealed the meaning of his name to Moses when moses asked for his name...Gods reply was....
Exodus 3:14'... This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.
The name of God revolves around his ability to become whatever he chooses to fulfill his purposes.
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