Science and homosexuality

[Averroes]

You need Yoga for that.

For heterosexuals there's a much simpler cure for sex. It's called marriage.

I get that now and I am not married

 

[Agnostic75]

For heterosexuals there's a much simpler cure for sex. It's called marriage.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/27/MNG1H59R5Q1.DTL

…….Bill Maier, vice president of the conservative evangelical organization Focus on the Family, said "the research seems to indicate that (long-term relationships) are very rare [among gay men] and that promiscuity is still very common. ... Men tend to be less into commitment."

Not so fast, said Darren Spedale, a law and business student at Stanford University, who studied divorce rates in Denmark in 1996-97, seven years after same-sex registered partnerships were legalized. He found that 17 percent of gay partnerships ended in divorce compared with 46 percent of the straight relationships.

"Same-sex couples who enter into marriage-type relationships have obviously given it much more thought. ... A lot of them, in general, have had longer relationships previous to tying the knot," which decreases the likelihood of divorce, said Spedale, who is completing a book on the subject.

Dale Bullock founded Bonds Limited, an organization devoted to bringing together gay couples seeking lifelong, monogamous relationships. Over the past decade, he's made 228 matches. One hundred sixty of his couples are male; all but seven are still together.

George Barna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Divorce rate amongst born-again Christians is significantly higher than that for atheist/agnostics. A more recent 2008 Barna report shows a closer divorce rate gap between born-again Christians (32% had been divorced) and atheist/agnostics (30% had been divorced).

Many unmarried heterosexual couples stay together longer than many married heterosexual couples do. Marriage is fine for people who want to get married, but the high divorce rate among heterosexuals, and among some Christian groups, proves that commitment is the main issue, not a marriage document, and not a person's sexual preference.

It is important to note that many heterosexual couples who stay married are not happy together, and stay together for various reasons, including religious reasons.

I doubt that the earliest human couples had marriage ceremonies.

 

[Averroes]

Agnostic very good point

 

[Agnostic75]

But still homosexuality is abnormal and hazardous.

And what do you propose should be done about homosexuality?

 

[Agnostic75]

But still homosexuality is abnormal and hazardous.

And what do you propose should be done about homosexuality? It would obviously be ridiculous for a person to call anything "abnormal and hazardous" without offerring a solution. You might as well call smoking cigarettes "abnormal and hazardous" without offerring a solution.

 

[tarekabdo12]

And what do you propose should be done about homosexuality? It would obviously be ridiculous for a person to call anything "abnormal and hazardous" without offerring a solution. You might as well call smoking cigarettes "abnormal and hazardous" without offerring a solution.

The problem is that jsut because you want to accept homosexuality from a political reason, you made people admit it as a normal pattern. People should have gone in the right way to search for the cause of this activity and how to deal with it. I see that it's crucial to shift the minds of people away from the materialistic aspect of sex in your community. Every where in your communities there are explicit sex scenes, people taking about sex in a materialistic pattern, children who see sexual activities in the media in a wide-spread manner and seeing porn or hearing about it in a very early age before they are wise enough to know its nature. Shift peoples' minds to the emotional core of sex. Homosexuality is just like the other patterns of sexual aberrations.

 

[Agnostic75]

The problem is that jsut because you want to accept homosexuality from a political reason.......

This thread is primarily about science and homosexuality, not politics and homosexuality.

.......you made people admit it as a normal pattern.

Please define the word "normal."

Having an IQ over over 160 is not normal, but most people do not criticize people who have IQ's over 160.

People should have gone in the right way to search for the cause of this activity and how to deal with it.

But a lot of research has been conducted by experts regarding the causes of homosexuality, and the most recent position by the majority of experts is that the causes of homosexuality are not known.

I see that it's crucial to shift the minds of people away from the materialistic aspect of sex in your community. Every where in your communities there are explicit sex scenes, people talking about sex in a materialistic pattern, children who see sexual activities in the media in a wide-spread manner and seeing porn or hearing about it in a very early age before they are wise enough to know its nature.

This thread is only about homosexuality, not about the sexual practices of all groups of people. You object to sexual morals and practices in the West. Well, so do I regarding some issues. For example, I strongly object to people having sex on the first day that they meet, and to sex frequently being put on a much higher pedestal than it should. However, those are subjects for another thread. I will, however, briefly add that most, if not all predominantly Muslim countries have plenty of their own problems that they need to deal with, not the least of which is poor freedom of religion.

In my thread on religion and societal health at http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...bates/124824-religiosity-societal-health.html, I provided sufficient evidence that generally, the majority of people who live in countries with the best societal health, and are the most peaceful, are not very religious.

The majority of Americans would consider a state run religion to be an abhorrent, undesirable abberation.

Shift people's minds to the emotional core of sex.

What do you mean?

Homosexuality is just like the other patterns of sexual aberrations.

Please post a list of what you consider to be sexual abberations.

Homosexuals do generally have higher elevated levels of distress than heterosexuals do, but it is not their fault that they developed homosexual sexual identities. It is well-known that sexual identity is not a choice.

If we are limiting this thread to science, no one who has poor dietary habits, smokes cigarettes, or is obese, excluding obese people who have hormonal problems, is in a position to claim that homosexuality is not healthy. That would be hypocrisy.

When some teenagers develop homosexual sexual identities, what should they do about it? What are their options?

 

[tarekabdo12]

Please define the word "normal."

Having an IQ over over 160 is not normal, but most people do not criticize people who have IQ's over 160.

When you see how males and females are created in the pattern of body building, sexual organs' adaptation and psychology, you can know what's normal. The brains are even different in structure. I stutied medicine and I knew how the organs functions and how each part is magnificently created. I know that the sexual organs as well as all other body parts are intricate and very well-designed so this must be for a reason not for nothing.

 

[tarekabdo12]

The body built also underlies a psychological and mental built, this is true and the brains of males and females structurally differ. This points also to a different need inside each of them to each others. This need must be satisfied by heterosexual sex. That is homosexuals find sth deficient inside them all the time.

 

[tarekabdo12]

But a lot of research has been conducted by experts regarding the causes of homosexuality, and the most recent position by the majority of experts is that the causes of homosexuality are not known.

Unknown but can be deduced

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] A Danish research investigation studied two million adults living in Denmark, a country where same-sex marriage has been legal since 1989. This study uncovered a number of specific environmental factors that increase the probability an individual will seek a same-sex rather than an opposite-sex partner for marriage. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] For Danish men, the environmental factors associated with higher rates of homosexual marriage include an urban birthplace and an absent or unknown father. Significantly, there was a linear relationship between degree of urbanization of birthplace and whether a man chose homosexual or heterosexual marriage as an adult. In other words, the more urban a man's birthplace, the more likely he was to marry a man, while the more rural a man's birthplace, the more likely he was to marry a woman. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] For Danish women, the environmental factors related to increased likelihood of homosexual marriage include an urban birthplace, maternal death during adolescence, and mother-absence. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Interestingly, this Danish research finds that urban birthplace and separation from the same-sex parent both were associated with same-sex marriage for men as well as women. (The latter finding supports psychological theories that have long asserted homosexuality is related to childhood problems—real or perceived—with the same-sex parent). In summary, this study finds that environmental factors that contribute to the development of homosexuality can be social and/or familial. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Finally, an American research study—the most comprehensive and representative survey of sexual behavior in America—reported its findings concerning homosexuality. The results of this study also support an environmental theory of homosexuality, not a genetic one. In particular, this survey identified specific types of environments that increase the likelihood of homosexual behavior. The authors describe these environments as "congenial" to the development of homosexuality. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] For American men, the environmental factor most related to homosexual behavior was the degree of urbanization during the teenage years. Specifically, boys who lived in large urban centers between the ages of 14 and 16 were three to six times more likely to engage in homosexual behavior than were boys who lived in rural communities during those same ages. The authors offer the following possibility: "an environment that provides increased opportunities for and fewer negative sanctions against same-gender sexuality may both allow and even elicit expression of same-gender interest and sexual behavior (p.308)." Note the word "elicit." These researchers believe that growing up in a more pro-homosexual region may evoke or draw out homosexual behavior in young men. The implication is that some homosexual men who were reared in urban centers would not have become homosexual if reared in non-urban centers. The authors explain, "the environment in which people grow up affects their sexuality in very basic ways (p.309)." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] For American women, the environmental factor most associated with a homosexual or bisexual identity was a higher level of education. And though that was also true for men, the pattern for women was more dramatic. For instance, a woman with a college degree was nine times more likely to identify herself as non-heterosexual than a woman with only a high school diploma. The specific elements that create this marked difference are unclear, but the researchers don't believe it's simply due to higher reporting of non-heterosexuality by more educated individuals. They believe one explanation is the fact that with more acceptance, even encouragement, of homosexuality at universities, more university women embrace a non-heterosexual lifestyle. For an example of how that might develop, see Dennis Prager's article entitled, "College Taught Her Not To Be a Heterosexual." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Based on the findings of this American research study, environments that sanction and/or promote homosexuality induce more individuals to engage in homosexual behavior. [/FONT]


Dr. Trayce Hansen's Writings



Environmental factors are crucial, that is what I'm talking about.

 

[tarekabdo12]

It's not strange that some people insist upon saying that they were born gay because probably this occurred very early during their sexual development.

 

[tarekabdo12]

Introducing a child to sexual scenes without being yet developed can modify his sexual orientation. The need to identify the organs before the brain has developed the sexual understanding plus the arousing nature of sexual parts may lead the child to be attracted to certain sex. This is more acceptable to me since homosex. is found more in open communities yet other cultures don't even understand it. In my country, I have never seen nor recognized anybody with homosexual tendency. It's sth that people are interested about at all. It appears that the more open communities exhibit this problem in a wider range so it's rather environmental and developmental.

 

[Agnostic75]

Introducing a child to sexual scenes without being yet developed can modify his sexual orientation. The need to identify the organs before the brain has developed the sexual understanding plus the arousing nature of sexual parts may lead the child to be attracted to certain sex. This is more acceptable to me since homosex. is found more in open communities yet other cultures don't even understand it. In my country, I have never seen nor recognized anybody with homosexual tendency. It's sth that people are interested about at all. It appears that the more open communities exhibit this problem in a wider range so it's rather environmental and developmental.

That is not a reasonable assessment since if no one opposed homosexuality on religious grounds, far more homosexuals would come out of the closet. Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years, but only recently has it become relatively safe for them to come out of the closet in many countries.

 

[Agnostic75]

Introducing a child to sexual scenes without being yet developed can modify his sexual orientation.

Please quote your scholarly sources.

Regardless, what options do you propose for homosexuals who are adults?

 

[Agnostic75]

It's not strange that some people insist upon saying that they were born gay because probably this occurred very early during their sexual development.

The vast majority of experts, and informed homosexuals, believe that the causes of homosexuality are not known.

 

[waitasec]

The vast majority of experts, and informed homosexuals, believe that the causes of homosexuality are not known.

with that in mind, i wonder if the causes of heterosexuality are known

 

[Agnostic75]

Environmental factors are crucial, that is what I'm talking about.

Environmental factors might be involved, but the vast majority of experts have stated that the causes of homosexuality are not known. Many experts have stated that environmental factors might be involved, but only partially involved.

Consider the following:

Answers to Your Questions For a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality

There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.

Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers stated in 2006:

Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.


The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.


The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in Pediatrics in 2004:



Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.


The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age.Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises fears about genetic profiling and prenatal testing.

Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

The authors of a 2008 study stated "there is considerable evidence that human sexual orientation is genetically influenced, so it is not known how homosexuality, which tends to lower reproductive success, is maintained in the population at a relatively high frequency". They hypothesized that "while genes predisposing to homosexuality reduce homosexuals' reproductive success, they may confer some advantage in heterosexuals who carry them". Their results suggested that "genes predisposing to homosexuality may confer a mating advantage in heterosexuals, which could help explain the evolution and maintenance of homosexuality in the population". A 2009 study also suggested a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual people from the maternal line (but not in those related from the paternal one).

Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."

As the article says, "there is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."

The only evidence that you have is from a mere relative handful of experts, the majority of whom have religious biases against homosexuality, and try to force science to agree with their religious beliefs. Many polls have shown that religious people are generally much more opposed to homosexuality than non-religious people are.

 

[tarekabdo12]

Regardless, what options do you propose for homosexuals who are adults?

Not to look at the body of the woman but at emotional view, her smile, words, actions then the sexual aspect will be built with time. The same is done with those who addict porn. The sexual act itself doesn't provide happiness , it's rather the emotional aspect of sex which makes people enjoy sex and leave it as happy as ever. Sex is a part of the whole life not a separate entity.

 

[tarekabdo12]

As the article says, "there is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."

The only evidence that you have is from a mere relative handful of experts, the majority of whom have religious biases against homosexuality, and try to force science to agree with their religious beliefs. Many polls have shown that religious people are generally much more opposed to homosexuality than non-religious people are.

The difference in rates between societies, cultures and place of living proves that it's not innate but rather they are people who want to ignore since they don't know much about it.

 

[Agnostic75]

Message to tarekabdo12: Consider the following:

Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture in AllPsych Journal

AllPsych Journal

We have examined many causes for homosexuality in the preceding pages, both biological and social. And although an interesting topic of debate, no one theory or experiment leads to a definitive answer. Some believe that the characters found on Xq28 are the Holy Grail of homosexuality research, the elusive 'gay gene'. Others may place stock in the theories of Foucault and Halperin. Perhaps Simon LeVay did reveal to us that anatomy is the key to understanding the difference in sexual orientation. Perhaps there is no one answer, that sexual orientation, whether homosexual or heterosexual; gay, straight, lesbian, or bisexual, all are a cause of a complex interaction between environmental, cognitive, and anatomical factors, shaping the individual at an early age.​

That was the conclusion of a long, detailed article that by a man who discussed a lot of evidence by both sides.













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