Simply put, is there any way to be a part of this religion without partaking in/viewing/or otherwise supporting animal sacrifices? Or is it too ingrained in the culture that it pretty much comes with the package no matter what?
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Santeria/Yoruba without animal sacrifice?
- Thread starter StarryNightshade
- Start date
Sees
Dragonslayer
I'm sure you could but wouldn't effect the others. People practicing old ancestral traditions in the U.S. tend to use other kinds of food in general. Some might say you are not going to get the full effect or benefit without blood. Milk usually has some in it anyways...but then you don't have the full consecrated sacrifice taking place.
Benst
Member
I don't think all of the Orishas or Loas demand sacrifice, do they? It seems to be a pretty important part of the culture though, and blood sacrifice is a very powerful and moving thing. There are many different variations of West African religions in the Carribbean and South America, perhaps there is one that doesn't?
Indeed; as a protector of children and a Mother Orisha, I do not believe Yemaya is sacrificed to with blood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orisha#Partial_list_of_Orishas
Benst
Member
Trinidad starts to get murky because the Orishas there are not exclusively Yoruba. I've read that Saints and even Hindu Gods (oweing to Trinidad's high population of people with Indian ancestry) also take possession and are called in ceremonies. In Hinduism, there is no blood sacrifice to figures like Krishna, so that's another spin on the issue as well.
African American Religious Cultures - Google Books
Hindu Deities and Trinidad Orisha Worship
also, explored very well in http://www.amazon.ca/Spirits-Blood-Drums-Religion-Trinidad/dp/1566393507, if you can find a copy at your University or local library.
African American Religious Cultures - Google Books
Hindu Deities and Trinidad Orisha Worship
also, explored very well in http://www.amazon.ca/Spirits-Blood-Drums-Religion-Trinidad/dp/1566393507, if you can find a copy at your University or local library.
Benst
Member
I think thats true of her Encantado form in Brazil too?
I have only a passing knowledge of Yoruba religion, but it's very possible as you say. Especially because Brazil has heavy Roman Catholic influence. She is probably syncretized with the Virgin Mary.
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
I've just got Baba Ifa Karade's The handbook of Yoruba religious concepts. He says that sacrifices are made by priests on behalf of the worshiper and that many things are offered. So Oya can receive hens and female goats, but also plums, red grapes, rice and beans, aubergines, red wine, or rum. So, she's not fussy! It's not like Aztec religion, where it's blood (preferably yours) or nothing.
Although many will disagree with me, I believe that sacrifice is essential to engaged spirituality.
To be clear, I can sacrifice in many different ways. I can prepare a meal for The Holy Powers and the time and the energy I put into my hot stove is a sacrifice. I can go out on a Nature walk and I can collect nuts, berries and flowers and give it as an offering and the energy I put into my hike is a sacrifice. What most people are opposed it is, of course, animal sacrifice.
If you're going to be an animistic spirit worker, then you can't, IMO, prioritize life forms by what's more like you. That carrot and those celery sticks you're giving have souls, just like the animals do. To prioritize life like this is very hypocritical.
On the other hand, I do agree that it's not very practical in most situations in contemporary western culture. Living in an apartment and sacrificing a chicken without any experience will get you in trouble, and I believe that the gods (or in this case, the Orishas) are understanding and not hard headed and stubborn.
Think of it as inviting a guest into your home. You open up your fridge and say "what do you want to eat?" and he or she sees an abundance of frozen pizzas and says "I'll take a pizza thanks". Show hospitality and GIVE them a pizza! You don't say "hmm well I don't feel like giving you a pizza, have a carrot" No! That's just not good manners.
A guest, especially a divine one, IMO isn't going to look and ask for steak when all you have is broccoli, eggs and frozen dinners.
Basically it's not about being macho and killing an animal. It's not about anthropocentrism. It's about hospitality and just plane good manners. You have someone coming into your home, giving you gifts from wisdom, insight, advice, comfort or may be even saving your life! I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for my ancestors intervening. Period. So how can you not give a good quality gift if you have it?
To be clear, I can sacrifice in many different ways. I can prepare a meal for The Holy Powers and the time and the energy I put into my hot stove is a sacrifice. I can go out on a Nature walk and I can collect nuts, berries and flowers and give it as an offering and the energy I put into my hike is a sacrifice. What most people are opposed it is, of course, animal sacrifice.
If you're going to be an animistic spirit worker, then you can't, IMO, prioritize life forms by what's more like you. That carrot and those celery sticks you're giving have souls, just like the animals do. To prioritize life like this is very hypocritical.
On the other hand, I do agree that it's not very practical in most situations in contemporary western culture. Living in an apartment and sacrificing a chicken without any experience will get you in trouble, and I believe that the gods (or in this case, the Orishas) are understanding and not hard headed and stubborn.
Think of it as inviting a guest into your home. You open up your fridge and say "what do you want to eat?" and he or she sees an abundance of frozen pizzas and says "I'll take a pizza thanks". Show hospitality and GIVE them a pizza! You don't say "hmm well I don't feel like giving you a pizza, have a carrot" No! That's just not good manners.
A guest, especially a divine one, IMO isn't going to look and ask for steak when all you have is broccoli, eggs and frozen dinners.
Basically it's not about being macho and killing an animal. It's not about anthropocentrism. It's about hospitality and just plane good manners. You have someone coming into your home, giving you gifts from wisdom, insight, advice, comfort or may be even saving your life! I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for my ancestors intervening. Period. So how can you not give a good quality gift if you have it?
Me again. Here are my biggest issues with animal sacrifice:
1.) I'm from the west, and I'm a product of it's conditioning. I try to tell myself that it's relative, and to not be ethnocentric; but when subjects like animal sacrifice come up, I can think of people saying things like "We're smarter than that", "We have to be more humane", and "There is no need to be that superstitious". Basically since we're from the west, we are somehow inherently less superstitious and should not be like "those people" who believe such nonsense.
2.) As a Unitarian Universalist, could I honestly, without any hypocrisy, be okay with animal sacrifice? Especially since UU is about respect for all living things and it doesn't help that I'm trying to go vegetarian.
3.) My biggest issue is that the animal would be tortured and/or the body would be wasted. It doesn't help that I've seen videos of Santerian priests harming the animals and using blunt instruments instead of knives. Or an account that one of my closest Pagan friends told me of an Asatru group stabbing a pig 5 times in the chest instead of quickly cutting it's jugular.
1.) I'm from the west, and I'm a product of it's conditioning. I try to tell myself that it's relative, and to not be ethnocentric; but when subjects like animal sacrifice come up, I can think of people saying things like "We're smarter than that", "We have to be more humane", and "There is no need to be that superstitious". Basically since we're from the west, we are somehow inherently less superstitious and should not be like "those people" who believe such nonsense.
2.) As a Unitarian Universalist, could I honestly, without any hypocrisy, be okay with animal sacrifice? Especially since UU is about respect for all living things and it doesn't help that I'm trying to go vegetarian.
3.) My biggest issue is that the animal would be tortured and/or the body would be wasted. It doesn't help that I've seen videos of Santerian priests harming the animals and using blunt instruments instead of knives. Or an account that one of my closest Pagan friends told me of an Asatru group stabbing a pig 5 times in the chest instead of quickly cutting it's jugular.
Most practitioners say it would be. That it has to be an animal and that it isn't really a solitary path.
I know.
It's just, of all the pantheons, I really connect with the Orishas. I also don't want to be solitary. However, if that means having to partake in a ritual in uncomfortable with, I suppose it's best to not worry about it anymore.
I have never heard of these cruel acts. Whenever people who are pro-sacrifice discuss the practice, they all talk about the animal being killed quickly and cleanly.
Also, as a UU, how can you condemn animal sacrifice, if you appear to have no issues with offering or consuming plants? Plants have hormones and life, arguably they have emotions and feel pain. It's just a vertebrate that makes us think that animal sacrifice is wrong. As a spirit worker, I CAN'T prioritize life. I can distinguish and score value between carrots or a pig.
Akinlade
New Member
I am an Olorisha crowned to Ogun in the Lukumi tradition. Sacrifice (blood and other) is integral to our tradition, it is part of our culture and is so essential that if it is taken away it is not the same tradition, it's like making spaghetti sauce without tomatoes. Blood sacrifice is only done at the hands of the priests who have received the rite to carry out the ceremony, they are trained to do it the most humane way we possibly can as our ancestors did for thousands of years. As priests it is our obligation to preserve the tradition just as it was taught to us. Blessings and health to all of you.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Its ingrained into the culture. I was thinking of worshiping the Orishas. Im getting a reading to see if Im called to the faith. In the US it may not be as simple in animal sacrifices (and more expensive) then in other countries.
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
There are African Diaspora religions without sacrifice. Umbanda is, like Candomble and Santeria, based on Yoruba practice, but is generally opposed to sacrifice. Espiritismo is similar. But such religions have more Christian influences than the others.
The tendency seems to be towards "re-Africanisation", which in turn leads to more sacrifice. Ultimately sacrifice may decrease, as it has in Hellenism and Heathenism. On the other hand, the African religions have a priesthood to carry out the sacrifice, while I would have to do in in the apartment gardens and the neighbours would probably be unhappy.
If you're a vegetarian, you obviously have a problem, but a competent priest doing a sacrifice is probably a lot better than a bored abbatoir worker.
The tendency seems to be towards "re-Africanisation", which in turn leads to more sacrifice. Ultimately sacrifice may decrease, as it has in Hellenism and Heathenism. On the other hand, the African religions have a priesthood to carry out the sacrifice, while I would have to do in in the apartment gardens and the neighbours would probably be unhappy.
If you're a vegetarian, you obviously have a problem, but a competent priest doing a sacrifice is probably a lot better than a bored abbatoir worker.
Having this conflict. I am a life long environmentalist and animal rights activist and now RASTA/ Yoruba. I want to be ALL African. My network my find it disgusting. Tough in a apt. Any other method other than photo or other offerings? I can ask ask my E S U if O K. My Godmother left me. I am on my own and I need help.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Ingrained in the culture. Lukumi is the correct name. (Santeria refers to Lukumi but with Catholic influence) is, I can safely say, built on sacrifice of some sort. You cant be initiated without viewing and partaking in a sacrificial ceremony. A Santera invited me to a ceremony and Im still waiting to go. Its a sacred event; so, if youre in between, Id go to a Babalow or Santero and get a reading to see if the Orishas are calling you to that path. There are lay followerers (non initiates) that do basic things for their anceators and Olodumare (creator) without having an orisha as heir head. It depends.
Get a reading. I got my reading and was told not to practice so I do basic things. Its highly expensive to go into the faith so if you are American and used to spiritualit being free, thats not the case in sacrifical religions where you buy the animals, statues, jewlry, etc. I was also told its cheaper to get overseas (Im in the states).
I have answers to basic questions. However, what they actually do in ceremony is private and bits are known more to the initiate throughout their relationship with their given Orisha.
I hope an santero or follower is hovering the RF boards to give advice. I talked with one but they disapeared.