Salvation in Christianity

[Treasure Hunter]

The idea that “I am saved” is different than “I will be saved”. Christians are to strongly identify with the Kingdom by identifying with the former.

Still, the question that should follow: If I am saved, then why am I not in the Kingdom of Heaven? Someone cannot be saved from a flood while they are still in the flood. Christians will respond to this by explaining that “I am saved” and “I will be saved” are actually the same, but that is a move which weakens identification with the Kingdom.

Christians, don’t soften on this - you are saved, but then confront the question: if you are saved, then why aren’t you in the Kingdom?

 

[InChrist]

The idea that “I am saved” is different than “I will be saved”. Christians are to strongly identify with the Kingdom by identifying with the former.

Still, the question that should follow: If I am saved, then why am I not in the Kingdom of Heaven? Someone cannot be saved from a flood while they are still in the flood. Christians will respond to this by explaining that “I am saved” and “I will be saved” are actually the same, but that is a move which weakens identification with the Kingdom.

Christians, don’t soften on this - you are saved, but then confront the question: if you are saved, then why aren’t you in the Kingdom?

Thanks for the link.
I am saved because I’m born again and a new creation in Christ ( 2 Corinthians 5:17). Spiritually, I am in God’s kingdom. I’m not in the kingdom literally because the the arrival of the Kingdom of God on earth has been put on hold during this church age of grace.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Thanks for the link.
I am saved because I’m born again and a new creation in Christ ( 2 Corinthians 5:17). Spiritually, I am in God’s kingdom. I’m not in the kingdom literally because the the arrival of the Kingdom of God on earth has been put on hold during this church age of grace.

Are you saying that your soul is in the Kingdom, but as a human individual, you are in the world separate from the Kingdom? If so, that is quite honest and perceptive because many Christians are divided in this way in their mind but don’t acknowledge it.

In truth, your soul is with your body, so it’s necessary to start a dialogue with your soul and tell it where it actually is, in the world. If not, your soul will project the Kingdom onto the world and cause you to act like the world and the Kingdom are one. I’m serious about this. We have to dialogue with our soul and tell it the truth.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We have to dialogue with our soul and tell it the truth..

Indeed..
I would say that a person is "saved", if they are saved from the fire of hell.
A person cannot be saved from the fire of hell, unless they behave appropriately.

..and there is also the possibility, that we become careless, or even turn away from faith in the future.
..so it's a serious business. We need to perform good deeds, and safeguard our faith.

 

[InChrist]

Yes

Are you saying that your soul is in the Kingdom, but as a human individual, you are in the world separate from the Kingdom? If so, that is quite honest and perceptive because many Christians are divided in this way in their mind but don’t acknowledge it.

In truth, your soul is with your body, so it’s necessary to start a dialogue with your soul and tell it where it actually is, in the world. If not, your soul will project the Kingdom onto the world and cause you to act like the world and the Kingdom are one. I’m serious about this. We have to dialogue with our soul and tell it the truth.

Yes, my soul (mind, emotions, and free will) are with my body. My spirit is in Christ, with Christ, in His heavenly kingdom. I fully realize this world system ruled by the god of this world ( satan) is not the kingdom of the Creator of heaven and earth.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Yes

Yes, my soul (mind, emotions, and free will) are with my body. My spirit is in Christ, with Christ, in His heavenly kingdom. I fully realize this world system ruled by the god of this world ( satan) is not the kingdom of the Creator of heaven and earth.

Spirits are what compete for embodiment. Your soul already has a body, so I’m not grasping what you mean when you say, “my spirit”.

I think you mean that you identify with the spirit of the Son, the spirit of Christ, so you are calling that spirit your spirit. Is that accurate?

If so, that spirit wants embodiment in your body. It wants you to bring it in, rather than it bringing you out. In my view.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Indeed..
I would say that a person is "saved", if they are saved from the fire of hell.
A person cannot be saved from the fire of hell, unless they behave appropriately.

..and there is also the possibility, that we become careless, or even turn away from faith in the future.
..so it's a serious business. We need to perform good deeds, and safeguard our faith.

Yeah, I would distinguish negative motivation (hell) from positive motivation (paradise), and I would say that we need both.

 

[InChrist]

Spirits are what compete for embodiment. Your soul already has a body, so I’m not grasping what you mean when you say, “my spirit”.

I think you mean that you identify with the spirit of the Son, the spirit of Christ, so you are calling that spirit your spirit. Is that accurate?

If so, that spirit wants embodiment in your body. It wants you to bring it in, rather than it bringing you out. In my view.

Human beings are created in the image of the triune God; so body, soul, spirit.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23


For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12


The stamp of God’s nature is stamped throughout creation.



“In Romans:1:20
Paul argues that God's "eternal power and Godhead" are seen in the creation He made. God's eternal power—but His Godhead? Yes, as Dr. Wood pointed out years ago in The Secret of the Universe, the triune nature of God is stamped on His creation. The cosmos is divided into three: space, matter and time. Each of these is divided into three. Space, for instance, is composed of length, breadth and width, each separate and distinct in itself, yet the three are one. Length, breadth and width are not three spaces, but three dimensions comprising one space. Run enough lines lengthwise and you take in the whole. But so it is with the width and height. Each is separate and distinct, yet each is all of space—just as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is each God.

Time also is a trinity: past, present and future—two invisible and one visible. Each is separate and distinct, yet each is the whole. Man himself is a triunity of spirit, soul and body, two of which are invisible, one visible. Many more details could be given of the Godhead's triunity reflected in the universe. It can hardly be coincidence.”

The Trinity

Many Christians are at a loss to understand, much less to defend, the "Trinity." Critics argue that that word is not even found in the Bible. To deal with that issue, we must begin with God,

www.thebereancall.org

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, I would distinguish negative motivation (hell) from positive motivation (paradise), and I would say that we need both.

“If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.” - Albert Einstein

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's your Bible, not mine, but, out of curiosity: saved from what?

The OP's question ("If I am saved, then why am I not in the Kingdom of Heaven?") strikes me as vapid.

Put differently: if I have only one of two possible final destinations -- Gary, IN or Naperville, IL -- telling me that I am saved from a future in Gary is meaningful (and appreciated) irrespective of where I might be at the present.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Human beings are created in the image of the triune God; so body, soul, spirit.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23


For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12


The stamp of God’s nature is stamped throughout creation.



“In Romans:1:20
Paul argues that God's "eternal power and Godhead" are seen in the creation He made. God's eternal power—but His Godhead? Yes, as Dr. Wood pointed out years ago in The Secret of the Universe, the triune nature of God is stamped on His creation. The cosmos is divided into three: space, matter and time. Each of these is divided into three. Space, for instance, is composed of length, breadth and width, each separate and distinct in itself, yet the three are one. Length, breadth and width are not three spaces, but three dimensions comprising one space. Run enough lines lengthwise and you take in the whole. But so it is with the width and height. Each is separate and distinct, yet each is all of space—just as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is each God.

Time also is a trinity: past, present and future—two invisible and one visible. Each is separate and distinct, yet each is the whole. Man himself is a triunity of spirit, soul and body, two of which are invisible, one visible. Many more details could be given of the Godhead's triunity reflected in the universe. It can hardly be coincidence.”

The Trinity

Many Christians are at a loss to understand, much less to defend, the "Trinity." Critics argue that that word is not even found in the Bible. To deal with that issue, we must begin with God,

www.thebereancall.org

What you seem to be calling your spirit, I include within what I call soul just because I don’t see the value in the distinction. I affirm the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (spirit of truth), but I don’t see the value in believing in the trinity. To me, it’s an unnecessary purity test that Christians play with each other.

I would strongly push back on the idea that it’s possible to separate what you’re calling your spirit from your soul. For instance, the idea that your spirit is in the Kingdom while your soul is with your body.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

“If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.” - Albert Einstein

There is a lot more to this religion game than social stability.

 

[Father Heathen]

There is a lot more to this religion game than social stability.

The religion game is all about power, influence, and control. Religion is where god is a personification of man's own ego.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

It's your Bible, not mine, but, out of curiosity: saved from what?

The OP's question ("If I am saved, then why am I not in the Kingdom of Heaven?") strikes me as vapid.

Put differently: if I have only one of two possible final destinations -- Gary, IN or Naperville, IL -- telling me that I am saved from a future in Gary is meaningful (and appreciated) irrespective of where I might be at the present.

Saved from being separated from the Kingdom. The Kingdom of God is the home to the soul. The soul desires to be reunited. The soul is lost when outside of the Kingdom.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

The religion game is all about power, influence, and control. Religion is men deifying their own ego.

Religion is affirmation of the soul. Organized religion has those corruptions, but that is why there is un-organized religion, like what we are doing on this forum.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The religion game is all about power, influence, and control...

In a way .. and why not? What is wrong with self-discipline?

 

[InChrist]

The religion game is all about power, influence, and control. Religion is where god is a personification of man's own ego.

I agree religion is about power and control for those in authority or keeping rules, maintaining certain practices and burdens for adherents.
God the Creator of heaven and earth planned and desires a loving eternal relationship, as opposed to religion, filled with joy, beauty, creativity, peace, and all that is good.

 

[Father Heathen]

In a way .. and why not? What is wrong with self-discipline?

I meant over others, not oneself.

 

[Father Heathen]

I agree religion is about power and control for those in authority or keeping rules, maintaining certain practices and burdens for adherents.
God the Creator of heaven and earth planned and desires a loving eternal relationship, as opposed to religion, filled with joy, beauty, creativity, peace, and all that is good.

So why place blind trust in mere men who presume to speak on god's behalf?

 

[InChrist]

So why place blind trust in mere men who presume to speak on god's behalf?

I don’t, nor should you.