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Salvation by Faith

Discussion in 'Methodist DIR' started by Dadball, Dec 14, 2004.

  1. Dadball

    Dadball Member

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    John Wesley Preached at St. Mary’s, Oxford, before the University, on June 18, 1738

    “By grace are ye saved through faith.”

    Eph. 2:8.

    1. All the blessings which God hath bestowed upon man are of his mere grace, bounty, or favour; his free, undeserved favour; favour altogether undeserved; man having no claim to the least of his mercies. It was free grace that “formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into him a living soul,” and stamped on that soul the image of God, and “put all things under his feet.” The same free grace continues to us, at this day, life, and breath, and all things. For there is nothing we are, or have, or do, which can deserve the least thing at God’s hand. “All our works, Thou, O God, hast wrought in us.” These, therefore, are so many more instances of free mercy: and whatever righteousness may be found in man, this is also the gift of God.

    2. Wherewithal then shall a sinful man atone for any the least of his sins? With his own works? No. Were they ever so many or holy, they are not his own, but God’s. But indeed they are all unholy and sinful themselves, so that every one of them needs a fresh atonement. Only corrupt fruit grows on a corrupt tree. And his heart is altogether corrupt and abominable; being “come short of the glory of God,” the glorious righteousness at first impressed on his soul, after the image of his great Creator. Therefore, having nothing, neither righteousness nor works, to plead, his mouth is utterly stopped before God.

    3. If then sinful men find favour with God, it is “grace upon grace!” If God vouchsafe still to pour fresh blessings upon us, yea, the greatest of all blessings, salvation; what can we say to these things, but, “Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift!” And thus it is. herein “God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died” to save us “By grace” then “are ye saved through faith.” Grace is the source, faith the condition, of salvation.

    Now, that we fall not short of the grace of God, it concerns us carefully to inquire, —

    I. What faith it is through which we are saved.

    II. What is the salvation which is through faith.

    III. How we may answer some objections.

    Read more here http://www.ccel.org/ccel/wesley/sermons.v.i.html
     
  2. concha

    concha New Member

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    read in James where it says that by works man is saved. we must have the faith to do the works and then we can be saved. i cannot have faith without following ALLof the Lords teachings. as Jesus said "if ye love me, keep my commandments." not just believe in the commandments but to actually do and keep them.
    Grace is what saves us after we have done everything possible to become like Christ in this life. no matter what we do we cannot become perfect in this mortal state- so the grace of God saves us from that after we have done all that we can.
     
  3. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that works saves us in any way...I feel works are the Glory of God through us but works won't secure us a home in heaven. We ARE saved by grace...through the faith that on the cross Jesus paid our sin debt and if we confess with our mouths He is faithfull enough right back to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. There aren't enough works in the world that will make us a home in Heaven...only by the saving grace of God will we spend eternity in heaven.:162:
     
  4. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    We are saved by the Grace of God..... works do not save...... but to have faith is to do the will of God..... to do good works.

    To have faith and not do good shows that your truly have no faith...... it is dead faith.
     
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  5. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    True...but in works we do we must give the glory to God. Once saved God works through us in the works He puts forth from us. There is never anything of value that comes from works unless it's by God.
     
  6. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    I really find it interesting that people spend so much time with a faith vs. works issue. Of course, it isn't new, because Paul and James had to deal with it :).

    Still, can you really have faith without having works? If you believe it, then you will do it. Hence, "faith without works is dead."

    God forgives freely, and there is no amount of labor that we can do that can possibly "earn" forgiveness either, so we do not earn salvation by works.

    However, going back to works, sin isn't just an issue of guilt, it's an issue of illness, and we have to deal with the consequences of our actions in order to heal ourselves (we don't stop sinning the day we believe, are baptised, chrismated, etc.). So we must have works in order to aid in our healing.

    On the other hand, we will never be without corruption in this life. We will always struggle with sin, so Christ extends mercy and heals us in our passing. In this sense, it is not works that help us.

    I could go on, but faith and works are really quite synergetic. In fact, James uses that exact term (usually translated "cooperate"). I think...the division between the two is a wee bit unhealthy for the faith.
     
  7. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that my friend..... all glory to God! My good works are not my own, but by the Grace of God!

    Thanks for that.
    Scott
     
  8. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Grace is God changing you from within to be more like him. Jesus is "full of Grace and Truth" because by his very nature, he is God. The more you become like God, the more you do God's work. Faith without works is dead because that is the antithesis of grace.
     
  9. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Said beautifully.

    Melody
     
  10. Greyprophet

    Greyprophet Member

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    Amen No*s (or what ever that darn handle name is of yours)

    You speak truth. We are no longer even under the laws...for we are under the Grace of God.
    We are dead with him. We no longer are even held accountable for our actions because our faith makes us whole.

    But works will come if we really do have faith.

    Peace in the name of Christ Jesus.
     
  11. kassi

    kassi Member

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    Thank you and well said. Faith without works is most certainly dead. Faith
    is what brings reconcilliation with god and this is where our fruit (good works} comes from.
    The works of christ was to cover our past sins (cleansing) and to free us from our present sin( the lust of the flesh).Our faith is not just a one time thing ( your name in heaven) but a continuing process (being conformed to christ) the end result--life.What we do has everything to do with where we stand "in" christ. If your not standing in christ your in death,you bear no fruit.


    If you dont love your brother whom you see, how can you love God whom you dont see?
     
  12. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Well put kassi (especially the insiteful praise of that guy NetDoc :D )

    But there are "bad fruits". We are going to produce SOMETHING... I just want mine to be good!!!
     
  13. Zionic86

    Zionic86 Member

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    Look at how the human body is SPRUNG TO LIFE with the blood running through it.
    Look in the blood that GIVES THE BODY LIFE. Look how the nucleus of each bloodcell sets itself up accordingly. Look at how the VIRUS TRIES TO UNDO THE WILL OF THE BLOODCELL'S NUCLEUS. Look at how the body calls upon the WHITE BLOOD CELL to KILL THE VIRUS and SAVE ALL CONTAINED WITHIN THE CELL!

    Sure we know our bodies rely on this from the cells, but what do our cells rely on so much that they acctually function this way. WHats the basis.

    To have a setup, you have to have something set it up, and if you ask what set this up that way, and you do it forever, that alone proves something you cannot comprehend has set things up. And guess what, the thing you cannot comprehend, set it up so that you would feel your emotion, so that you would know you are there, do you not?

    So didnt the setter-upper from the begining say to himself, well if im going to make things exist, whats the point in them existing if they are anything but happy, so now he looks at whats happenning here does he not?
    So isnt it part of his plan from the begining already correct nomatter what, oh yes, he knew that when he through satan out of the bar, satan just before he left, would break one of his toys to show anger and jeallousy. Hence why we are here, if we went from unexistent it could not immediately go to ultimate pleasure and nothing but that, and it would not be seen as pleasure unless youve experienced displeasure, so here we must experience displeasure, but its only TEMPORARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. sjrdude

    sjrdude New Member

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    God is so cool!
     
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