Roger Garaudy: a revisionist historian or a holocaust denier!

[Scuba Pete]

Many people have accused Roger Garaudy of being a holocaust denier but is he really as they claim so, or he is just another revisionist historian who is looking for the truth?

I find his contentions to be repulsive as well as any attempts to use this as a means to proselytize others. How low will people go to push their religion?

 

[TashaN]

Did you read the pages you linked to. Garaudy argues that there was no genocide because (1) There were Jews who survived and (2) other people were killed. By Garaudy's definition, then, there is no such thing as genocide. This is just nonsense

Why nonsense?

Garaudy also denies that gas chambers were used.

So what?

You also linked in the OP to Wikipedia articles about Holocaust denial and historical revisionism. If you read them, you know that Garaudy meets the given definition of a Holocaust denier and does not meet the given definition of a historical revisionist.

I used to put all kind of links in my OP's and then we can go on to investigate in depth and help each other with more resources. Note that Wikipedia has not been written by one person, so you might notice that he might appear to be a holocaust denier and a historical revisionist at the same time.

Show me Garaudy's original research on this subject, or evidence of it.

It was in French, and i don't speak french. Do you?

 

[TashaN]

He denies that Jews died in gas chambers.

It's his opinion based on his research. What's wrong with that?

 

[TashaN]

I studied the Nazi's wholesale slaughter of Jews in great depth, my mentor and instructor was a highly respected authority on the subject of the Holocaust, and I had the awesome experience of meeting Elie Wiesel. And I find the subject of this thread to be an extreme offense to the integrity and intelligence of the entire RF community.

Why is that?

In the case of the Holocaust, the survivors, eye witnesses, and historians may collectively be considered the claimants. The prevailing consensus among the informed is that their evidence is overwhelming, and that it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the Holocaust occurred, and that it occurred as they say it occurred.

I guess you misread my thread. The guy didn't deny the holocaust.

Please read post # 75 & 76 to understand the topic more.

 

[TashaN]

I find his contentions to be repulsive as well as any attempts to use this as a means to proselytize others. How low will people go to push their religion?

In what sense you consider it to be proselytizing?

 

[Scuba Pete]

In what sense you consider it to be proselytizing?

Showing us how "right" his religion is by demonstrating the fallacies within our religion. It's a stupid ploy and most people can see through the subterfuge.

 

[TashaN]

Showing us how "right" his religion is by demonstrating the fallacies within our religion. It's a stupid ploy and most people can see through the subterfuge.

What is the relationship between his religion and the topic of this thread?

Enlighten me please!

 

[Smoke]

Why nonsense?

Because he simply defines genocide out of existence.

So what?

So, it's a damnable lie, and Garaudy knows it -- or at the very least, has no excuse for not knowing it.

I used to put all kind of links in my OP's and then we can go on to investigate in depth and help each other with more resources. Note that Wikipedia has not been written by one person, so you might notice that he might appear to be a holocaust denier and a historical revisionist at the same time.

No, he's not a historical revisionist, and I already explained why.

It was in French, and i don't speak french. Do you?

I can read French with some difficulty, but fortunately for you, The Founding Myths of Israeli Politics and several of Garaudy's other books have been published in both English and Arabic, and are available online, so your inability to speak French won't hinder you in any way from producing some evidence of his original research, if there is any.

 

[Smoke]

What is the relationship between his religion and the topic of this thread?

Many Muslims deny the Holocaust for ideological and propagandistic reasons; that's why such Muslims hail Garaudy as a "hero of Islam." That he accepts such honors from such people leads one to believe he's not opposed to their methods or their motives.

 

[Scuba Pete]

What is the relationship between his religion and the topic of this thread?

Enlighten me please!

It would appear that he converted to Islam out of his antisemitism. He uses his religion as one would use a soap box: to be heard above the rest.

Now, you can deny this ALL you want, but if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and then smells like a duck, then I would be expecting to see Daffy. You would have an easier time portraying Coulter as a liberal.

 

[TashaN]

It would appear that he converted to Islam out of his antisemitism. He uses his religion as one would use a soap box: to be heard above the rest.

Now, you can deny this ALL you want, but if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and then smells like a duck, then I would be expecting to see Daffy. You would have an easier time portraying Coulter as a liberal.

Do you mean all Muslims are antisemite or that Islam encourages it?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Do you mean all Muslims are antisemite or that Islam encourages it?

This is like asking me WHEN I stopped beating my wife: there is no good answer. It is also a great red herring. My comments were about one individual and not about any religion or race of people. His conversion appears to be out of spite for Israel and not out of a true love for Mohammad. This bears no reflection on why others may believe or why they converted in the first place.

All religions have extremists. Christianity endures the likes of Robertson and Benny Hinn, while I am sure that there are those of your faith that simply make you cringe with their agendas of hate and intolerance. Forming an opinion on the entire set of believers from one of these buffoons is like thinking ALL Americans are as vapid and evil as George "Shrub" Bush.

 

[TashaN]

His conversion appears to be out of spite for Israel and not out of a true love for Mohammad.

Are you assuming now that Islam attracted him because it is against Israel?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I "assume" that there is a LOT of enmity between Israel and many predominately Islamic countries. Do you deny this? Do you assume because I am a Christian that I am biased against Muslims?

 

[TashaN]

I "assume" that there is a LOT of enmity between Israel and many predominately Islamic countries. Do you deny this?

There is a huge difference between being antisemite and being against Israel, don't you think so?

Do you assume because I am a Christian that I am biased against Muslims?

Don't put words in my mouth please. I have alot of christian friends and i don't look at your religious title when i speak to you. I speak to your mind and soul then your words and personality will show who you are, not the faith you claim to belong to.

What about you?

 

[Scuba Pete]

There is a huge difference between being antisemite and being against Israel, don't you think so?

I would dare to say that all antisemitic people are probably against Israel. The converse may not be true.

Don't put words in my mouth please.

But you have done that to me with almost every post!

I have alot of christian friends and i don't look at your religious title when i speak to you. I speak to your mind and soul then your words and personality will show who you are, not the faith you claim to belong to.

What about you?

What about me? [music=UnderDog Theme] I am the anti-bigot. The defender of the defenseless. I jump sociopaths in a single bound and am faster than a speeding racial slur. When I am off duty you can find me disguised as the humble, yet lovable, Shoeshine Boy! LOOK! IN THE AIR! IT'S A BIRD! NO IT'S A PLANE... IT'S, IT'S

SCUBA PETE!!!
[/music]


​

 

[TashaN]

LOOK! IN THE AIR! IT'S A BIRD! NO IT'S A PLANE... IT'S, IT'S

SCUBA PETE!!!
[/music]​

I guess you were watching Super Man alot in your childhood!

 

[Scuba Pete]

It's UnderDog, man, Underdog! He could fly circles around Super Man.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I've been thinking not to get into this again...But noway...I'm just addicted

But hey, let me just start from the beginning..

The thread is actually a question which I personally have no answer to..

So please, I'm asking anyone who would say Roger was a historian to provide an evidence, and anyone who would say otherwise to provide an evidence too
Lets just get more objective and more into the topic, you know?

 

[Yerda]

I would dare to say that all antisemitic people are probably against Israel.

Nah. Some antisemites are Zionists, odd as that may seem. I think it boils down to hating Jews in their (their country couldn't possibly belong to Jews too) country but if they bugger off to Israel it's all cool.