Rich Ministers

[CMike]

Okay...so I was driving home last night and I was listening to the Bob Dutko show.

His topic was if it okay for a minister to be rich.

Some of the greatest biblical figures were very wealthy.

Abvraham, had more money than the king. Issac and Jacob were wealthy too.

King's David and Solomon were wealthy as well.

Also if you have money you can help people with it. You can help the poor, build schools, etc. You can't do that if you don't have money.

There is a story of a guy who was rich and wanted to close his factory and devote his life to learning Torah. He asked the rabbi about it. His rabbi told him no, because then all of those employees would be out of work.

Money isn't evil. Money allows you to do good things with it.

 

[dust1n]

No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

Luke 16:13-15

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money. “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Matt 6:24-25

Wisdom is a shelter as money is a shelter, but the advantage of knowledge is this: that wisdom preserves the life of its possessor.

Ecc 7:12

Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything--all she had to live on."

Matt 12:41-44

Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.

Herbrews 13:5

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Matthew 19:21

Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

Luke 12:33

You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Revelation 3:17

 

[ChristineES]

There's really nothing wrong with a religious person having money, just as long the money does not come before God. That would be the same as anything else.

 

[gsa]

There's really nothing wrong with a religious person having money, just as long the money does not come before God. That would be the same as anything else.

I thought it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven? Granted, he didn't say either was impossible, but it would suggest Christianity frowns on wealth, viewing it as an obstacle to salvation.

 

[ChristineES]

I thought it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven? Granted, he didn't say either was impossible, but it would suggest Christianity frowns on wealth, viewing it as an obstacle to salvation.

It's very easy for a person to put money ahead of God. Here are some explanations of that passage.
What did Jesus mean when He said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven?

 

[gsa]

It's very easy for a person to put money ahead of God. Here are some explanations of that passage.
What did Jesus mean when He said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven?

Sure, I know that there are a number of interpretations. However, a vow of poverty is part of the Christian tradition for a reason, above and beyond that single passage. There is no real way of reading the gospels and not walking away and believing Jesus was hostile to wealth as a corrupting influence. See, i.e., Lk. 18:18-23.

 

[gsa]

Okay...so I was driving home last night and I was listening to the Bob Dutko show.

His topic was if it okay for a minister to be rich.

Some of the greatest biblical figures were very wealthy.

Abvraham, had more money than the king. Issac and Jacob were wealthy too.

King's David and Solomon were wealthy as well.

Also if you have money you can help people with it. You can help the poor, build schools, etc. You can't do that if you don't have money.

There is a story of a guy who was rich and wanted to close his factory and devote his life to learning Torah. He asked the rabbi about it. His rabbi told him no, because then all of those employees would be out of work.

Money isn't evil. Money allows you to do good things with it.

Sure, you can do good things with it. You can also do terrible things with it, and if you have enough of it (i.e., hundreds of millions to billions) you probably don't even know what is being done with it. On the whole, given the state of the world, I don't think there's much evidence that most wealthy people use money to do good. Some do, some use it for evil, some are relatively indifferent.

But rich ministers are a different matter entirely; where is that money coming from exactly? How do charlatans like Billy Graham end up as multimillionaires?

 

[ChristineES]

Sure, I know that there are a number of interpretations. However, a vow of poverty is part of the Christian tradition for a reason, above and beyond that single passage. There is no real way of reading the gospels and not walking away and believing Jesus was hostile to wealth as a corrupting influence. See, i.e., Lk. 18:18-23.

Jesus didn't really come across as hostile toward anything outside of the "holier than thou" religious leaders of His time (He compared them to tombs, beautiful outside and full of dead, rotten things) and those who corrupted the Temple.

 

[gsa]

Jesus didn't really come across as hostile toward anything outside of the "holier than thou" religious leaders of His time (He compared them to tombs, beautiful outside and full of dead, rotten things) and those who corrupted the Temple.

And why do you think he was opposed to the religious elite of the time? Because they were impoverished? No.

 

[ChristineES]

And why do you think he was opposed to the religious elite of the time? Because they were impoverished? No.

Because they were hypocrites. He only mentioned money to one rich man. I think you know the story.

 

[DayRaven]

Does money make you less moral? I think we have a dangerous tendency to see virtue in poverty. Believe me I've been poor and I've known poor, I've been well off and I've known wealthy. I've never found the bank balance to be the indicator of virtue.

 

[Nietzsche]

Does money make you less moral? I think we have a dangerous tendency to see virtue in poverty. Believe me I've been poor and I've known poor, I've been well off and I've known wealthy. I've never found the bank balance to be the indicator of virtue.

Mother Theresa comes to mind.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Does money make you less moral? I think we have a dangerous tendency to see virtue in poverty. Believe me I've been poor and I've known poor, I've been well off and I've known wealthy. I've never found the bank balance to be the indicator of virtue.

Very true. Poverty often includes poor nutrition, violent environments, an unsteady home life, drugs, and little-to-no hope of ever escaping. If you were born in poverty, it is very likely that you kids will die in poverty. IMO, this "virtue" in poverty is nothing more than something we tell ourselves to trick ourselves into believing the poor are better off than what they are. Why would we want to help the virtuous poor when we ourselves have all this money that can't buy happiness? We're so unhappy with all this money, but look at those poor people who have nothing but virtue? We're even blind to the fact that, in this largely free free-market capitalist economy, money, up to a certain amount, does buy a tremendous amount of happiness in the form of stress relief and being able to get away from bad environments and not having to choose between eating and paying the bills.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I'm all for a wealthy pastor so long as it isn't "earned" through the tithes. If he's independently wealthy more power to him.

 

[Jumi]

What do Christians think about Jesus turning down the rich but virtuous man in Mark 10? I would think for someone trying to follow Jesus it would be problematic to be rich.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What do Christians think about Jesus turning down the rich but virtuous man in Mark 10? I would think for someone trying to follow Jesus it would be problematic to be rich.

I always thought the point Jesus was trying to make is that the man viewed his wealth as an idol, he trusted in it and Jesus was challenging him to give up that idol. I don't think he was making a blanket statement about wealth.

 

[ChristineES]

I always thought the point Jesus was trying to make is that the man viewed his wealth as an idol, he trusted in it and Jesus was challenging him to give up that idol. I don't think he was making a blanket statement about wealth.

That's kind of how I saw it, too.

 

[gsa]

I always thought the point Jesus was trying to make is that the man viewed his wealth as an idol, he trusted in it and Jesus was challenging him to give up that idol. I don't think he was making a blanket statement about wealth.

Then why didn't he say stop viewing your wealth as an idol? That would have cleared it up. Why would Jesus be so coy about eternal salvation?

It seems obvious that Jesus meant what he said: Rich people are unlikely to enter the kingdom, because their wealth is a corrupting factor in some way.

 

[Frank Bunneh]

If money is evil why do churches always want it?

 

[Jumi]

Jesus would have known the effect he had on the rich man who was dispirited by him and money was the only thing wrong with him in Jesus' view.