Rev. Michael A. McGee on Atheism

[Jayhawker Soule]

A Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington (UUCA) sermon reads, in part ...

“Atheism: Being Religious with No Invisible Means Of Support”​

< -- snip -- >​

My hope is to challenge you to struggle more intensely with what you believe and why you believe it, as well as to reflect on how you live out your beliefs in your everyday life. And I charge you to see not only the uniqueness of each belief system but the commonality that binds us all together in a diverse and welcoming community. We desperately need in our world today an understanding of the most sacred in life that unifies the people of the world rather than dividing it.

But that understanding is hard to find. We seem to have this deep down hunger for a relationship with something greater than ourselves. But the word God has been stretched and shaped so much throughout history that there are those who must negate that relationship in order to find a more profound one.

The Hopi Indians of southwestern America have a special ceremonial person they call a kachina. A kachina is a person dressed up as a god who runs into the middle of the village, does a wild and exuberant dance, and then suddenly vanishes.

The children are raised to believe that the kachinas are real gods, but at a certain age all the children are gathered together in the middle of the village, and the kachinas come out into the circle and begin again their wild and exuberant dance, only this time they are not wearing their masks or their costumes.

When they come out the children discover that the kachinas are not real gods or spirits, but instead they are their fathers, brothers, and uncles. Often these Hopi children are emotionally and spiritually crushed when they realize that there are no gods in their life.

One Hopi girl looks back over that experience of losing her god with these words: "I cried and cried into my sheep skin that night feeling I had been made a fool of. How could I ever watch the Kachinas dance again. I hated my parents and thought I could never believe the old folks again wondering if Gods had ever danced for the Hopi as they said and if people lived after death. I hated to see the other children fooled and felt mad when they said I was a big girl now and should act like one. I know now it was best and the only way to teach the children but it took me a long time to know that, it took me a long time to know..."​

Only a small part of the sermon has been quoted. All of it, in my opinion, is worth reading. Enjoy!

 

[michel]

Thanks; very interesting. Some good point. I particularly enjoyed the "Thank heaven that theologians aren’t studying sex or they would make that seem dull too".:biglaugh:

 

[Sunstone]

A friend of mine likes to say that most people have essentially the same concept of god at 60 that they had at six. Whether he's right or not, I think the article makes a good point that genuine spiritual growth often requires us to give up the god of our childhood.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I know now it was best and the only way to teach the children but it took me a long time to know that, it took me a long time to know...

I only wish I could get this Hopi girl to elaborate. Few cultures tear down without providing something substantive and supportive as a substitute. There was something going on beyond the unmasking of childish gods, and I'd love to know what that 'something' was ...

 

[nutshell]

A friend of mine likes to say that most people have essentially the same concept of god at 60 that they had at six. Whether he's right or not, I think the article makes a good point that genuine spiritual growth often requires us to give up the god of our childhood.

Most psychologists will tell you a person's basic belief structure is in place by the time of six years of age. That's just not about god, it's about racism, charity, motivation, etc.

 

[Sunstone]

I only wish I could get this Hopi girl to elaborate. Few cultures tear down without providing something substantive and supportive as a substitute. There was something going on beyond the unmasking of childish gods, and I'd love to know what that 'something' was ...

That's quite perceptive of you, Jayhawker. Now, you've got my curiosity up too!

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I am sure that is the same, or a similar feeling kids get when they discover the truth about Santa Claus, some take it harder than others, I would suspect.

Re: the idea of thinking the same at 60 as at age 6, sadly I must agree that for most people that is true. But then we must remember that 999 men out of a thousand are idiots. (that is a quote, and I don't recall the author, apologies) If a person has made no intellectual growth from age 6 to 60, then that person is very likely one of the fortunate masses who are blessed with such low intellect that they are not burdened with self awareness and a curious nature. Life is simpler for those folks. I genuinely envy them.

I was raised in church. I honestly wish I could beleive. Life for me would be much simpler and easier if I was a foolish sheep who beleived whatever I was told, and just went along with it. Sadly I am burdened with a streak of rationality and logic that precludes that way of thinking.

B.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... we must remember that 999 men out of a thousand are idiots. .... Sadly I am burdened with a streak of rationality and logic that precludes that way of thinking.

Apparently not.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Jayhawker,

Very cheap shot to take those two statements so far out of context and juxtapose them. For anyone with any sense, the 999 men quote was obviously in jest. And more importantly had nothing at all to do with the second quote you cut and pasted.

B.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

For anyone with any sense, the 999 men quote was obviously in jest.

If a person has made no intellectual growth from age 6 to 60, then that person is very likely one of the fortunate masses who are blessed with such low intellect that they are not burdened with self awareness and a curious nature. Life is simpler for those folks. I genuinely envy them.

I'm sorry.

I took it as part and parcel of a condescending sermon on "the fortunate masses who are blessed with such low intellect" by someone anxious to share the extent to which he was "burdened with self awareness and a curious nature".

My mistake ...

 

[robtex]

Wow that was a great find. Thanks for posting it J. Soule

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I'm sorry.

I took it as part and parcel of a condescending sermon on "the fortunate masses who are blessed with such low intellect" by someone anxious to share the extent to which he was "burdened with self awareness and a curious nature".

My mistake ...

Sir,

I think you missed my point. I pointed out that someone who thinks the same way at 60 as age 6 has not made any intellectual growth and therefore has a low intellect. Argue with that if you wish.

I also pointed out that I personally wish I could beleive what was taught to me in church as a youth. I can not with any level of intellectual honesty do so. For me, personally, to claim to beleive what I was taught in the christian church of my youth, would require me to be dishonest, or would require me to set aside my intelligence and ability to perceive logic and reason. Personally I am not able to do either of those things, tho I think my life would be simpler if I could do so.

Lastly, I pointed out that people who are able to simply beleive what they are told, without examining it for truth, logic, etc. . . probably are quite simple, and more than likely happy. It would be nice to live like that, but I cannot. If I came across as condescending, or as if I was preaching a sermon, such was not my intention.

B.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think you missed my point.

OK. What do you think of the referenced sermon?

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

OK. What do you think of the referenced sermon?

Before answering, I went and read the full sermon. Thank you for the link. Frankly in answer to your question, tho I have not in the past considered myself to be an athiest, I have never in my life read or heard anyone else sum up what I find innately true in my heart as well as it was put in that sermon.

After reading that sermon, I find myself extremely interested in reading more of what Rev. Michael A. McGee has to say. I must admit a high level of ignorance of the Unitarian church, but if the sermon you refer to is any example of the way they think, then I think for the first time in a lifetime of searching, that there is some hope I may regularly darken a church's doors.

The quotes from Clarence Darrow (fellow attorney), Mencken and Russell, for instance were all spot on with my personal way of thinking. I have for years also held the belief that if people would stop allowing others to think for them, and do what is right simply because it is the right thing to do, and not out of fear of punishment/reward in the afterlife, then mankind as a whole would be vastly better off.

Once again, thank you for the link, and thank you for starting this thread.

B.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Once again, thank you for the link, and thank you for starting this thread.

I'm pleased that you found it valuable. I'm also pleased that you're here. Welcome ...

 

[BUDDY]

I enjoyed reading the sermon, and thank you for the link. The writer has a great ability to formulate a difficult idea and put it into words. I can't say that I agree was everything in the sermon, but it is certainly a great read. Thanks again.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I'm pleased that you found it valuable. I'm also pleased that you're here. Welcome ...

Thanks again.

B.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Hi Jay,

I found this most interesting,

There is a mistaken myth that atheists are immoral, but in truth they may have the highest morals of all religions. Atheists attempt to be ethical not because they are threatened by hell and damnation and not because they are promised eternal bliss, but simply because they believe it is the right thing to do.

It is through this core moral essence that I came to believe in God and Jesus. Without elaborating, let's just say that through the inner path one can find things outside of one's self.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There is a mistaken myth that atheists are immoral, but in truth they may have the highest morals of all religions.

Atheism is not a religion.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Atheism is not a religion.

Hi Jay, Hellloooo,

I was acknowledging the inner core of wanting to do right that he was saying that some atheists practice. I wasn't saying it was religious. Try taking a deep breath before you slam down on something. I was relating my personal experience in this area. Let's put it this way, some people are fortunate enough to be born with this core of knowing right from wrong. It didn't come from any religion. As for me, it just caused me to take my particular path with it.