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Resurgence of Racism

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So what do you guys think? Am I being delusional or is the world in for some serious trouble because of racism, xenophobia and nationalism? The first two world wars were caused by a mix of these mental states so could we potentially see a third world war because of them?

I think there's a great deal of truth to what you say, especially the idea that most of these issues never really went away. However, I've noticed that they've taken different forms over the course of my lifetime.

Speaking from my own perspective, I was born in 1963. My grandparents were born in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. My parents were born in the 1930s. My grandparents and their generation would have seen a racist society most of their lives.

My parents came of age during the 1950s, when U.S. policy started to shift away from racism and segregation. Some could argue that the reasons for this shift included WW2, when the world saw the extremist nationalism and racism of Nazi Germany which went way beyond the pale. It could be said that, by witnessing such horrific atrocities as committed by the Nazis, it drove the point home just how horrible and malignant such ideas are so as to generate an even stronger reaction against them here in the U.S.

Another reason might be attributable to the Cold War and the fact that the eyes of the world were now upon the U.S. as the premiere superpower and guardian of freedom and democracy. So, with so much light upon America after WW2, things like the Jim Crow laws and other racist policies couldn't simply be ignored, dismissed, or swept under the rug. The world was watching, particularly areas of the world where the U.S. was attempting to gain hearts and minds, as European colonialism left a sour taste in the mouths of many in Africa and Asia, while the Soviet Union reminded them of how they've been treated by Western imperialists and racists. For some Americans, it was just plain embarrassing that President Eisenhower had to formally apologize because a restaurant in Maryland refused to give service to the ambassador from Ghana because of his race. Things like that had to be addressed, and they couldn't be ignored or put on the back burner.

As a result, during the 50s and 60s, there were more protests and attention paid to the matter of civil rights. The media were becoming more sympathetic, and young progressives like JFK and RFK spoke out very strongly against racism and injustice in our society. The military had already been integrated by Truman, and the Supreme Court overturned the precedent of "Separate But Equal" which had been the law since the Civil War. Sports were also becoming integrated, and people of color were becoming more prevalent on TV, radio, and in the music industry. Moreover, popular white performers had crossed over, much to the chagrin of racists who railed against the likes of Elvis Presley and Buddy Holly. Even earlier, blues and jazz became more and more popular, which were the primary influencers of rock and roll which grew near and dear to many Americans.

Of course, the same period was dominated by the politics of the Cold War and the ongoing red scare mentality that existed across America, so that also complicated things. The Civil Rights movement and Anti-War movement were considered suspect, and many of its supporters were accused of being communists or commie sympathizers (pinkos). On the other hand, America's working class and the standard of living across the country had been improving by leaps and bounds. Unions were stronger, and the government and ruling class had an enormous stake in making sure they had the loyalty and support of the American body politic. Their obsession over communism drove them to make capitalism appear as wonderful as possible (see Nixon-Khrushchev Kitchen Debate), as well as pushed them to build up our military forces and challenge communist uprisings wherever and whenever they occurred. This is how we ended up in places like Vietnam in the first place.

The U.S. also had an underground, illicit love affair with organized crime, which started in the 1920s during the Prohibition era, and has continued to the present day. It's become a part of Americana, as illustrated by the popularity of movies such as The Godfather and Goodfellas. This also fed in to our obsession with anti-communism, since communists opposed the Mafia gaining a foothold in places like Cuba.

But it was clear by the mid to late 1960s that the public overwhelmingly supported the Civil Rights Act and the Civil Rights movement in general. LBJ's War on Poverty was immensely popular, although his War against Vietnam was not. This is where the Democrats failed politically, and the party all but imploded at the '68 Convention (which was also marred by RFK's assassination that same year). This cleared the way for Nixon to enter office.

It's also interesting to compare how Americans might have viewed race or people of color during the 20s and 30s versus the 60s and 70s. Stereotypes of black people changed from the inept, dull-witted Stepin Fechit to something more like the Blaxploitation films which were popularized during the 1970s. Blacks were no longer portrayed as harmless or hapless, but instead were transformed into streetwise, angry, and out for revenge. A popular trope in movies and TV would have a white guy with a flat tire or broken down car in a black neighborhood, where he would be invariably hassled or attacked by gangs of young tough blacks. This imagery, while viewed as "hip" at the time, probably contributed to the negative perceptions which would persist. This was also coupled with the major crime waves which occurred from the 70s, though the 80s, and into the 90s.

Even if the politics might have officially supported civil rights and anti-racism, it seems clear that the media were driven towards portraying Blacks and Hispanics as dangerous gang-bangers, agitators, or otherwise angry people - and that white people would be wise to stay away from them and out of their neighborhoods. This also coinciding with the demographic phenomenon known as "white flight," since whites were persuaded to be afraid, but they couldn't publicly express their fears out of a compounded fear of being branded as racist. The rise of political correctness managed to subvert the debate and inhibit public discussions, so many of these issues festered for quite some time.

Meanwhile, new generations were coming of age, people who weren't even born yet and never saw the Civil Rights era, nor did they have any first-hand experience with what America was like before that.

I also wouldn't dismiss the influence of identity politics on the whole situation. I recall a case where a white college student observed the existence of a "Black Students Association" on her campus, so she wanted to start a "White Students Association," yet was told that it was racist to do so. So, the question came up: How come blacks get to do it but whites can't? That's when the whole issue of "white privilege" and the notion that "only whites can be racist" came on the scene, and this is the point where it, sadly, jumped the shark. They would have been far better off to prohibit any associations based on race, rather than come up with weak, convoluted, specious explanations for having a double-standard. This is where it all went wrong, about 30 or so years ago.

Meanwhile, the attitudes you're mentioning continued to fester and grow, with the new technology of the internet coming on the scene. What you're seeing now is dissatisfaction from the lower classes who have grown disaffected and angst-ridden, feeling as if they've been put upon and blamed for things they didn't even do - just because of their skin color, an accident of birth. I don't think most of them would actively embrace racism or nationalism, but there's no other political faction that will listen or even comes close to echoing their viewpoint. The best solution would have been for the Powers That Be to continue the same economic boom which dominated the 50s and 60s. The economic growth rate should have continued unabated. At least, that would pacify the masses, but the capitalists refuse to make the economy better.

So, we have a situation where nearly half the population is living from paycheck to paycheck, being pressured by high prices and gaslighted by dishonest pundits and politicians. The people deserve a break, and if they don't get it soon, there will be hell to pay. It's as simple as that.

This also ties in to the whole problem, because Americans continue to embrace capitalism and its predatory, dog-eat-dog philosophy. It's social Darwinism, the belief that only the strong shall survive.

So, under the current prevailing philosophy which even Democrats and liberals support (by supporting both capitalism and identity politics), these are two things which are evident:

1. It's okay to believe in a predatory, dog-eat-dog philosophy where only the strong, skilled, and wealthy dominate the weak, unskilled, and poor. (Democrats believe this, too, since they support capitalism, although they don't seem to understand that this is the same philosophy as nationalism.)

2. It's okay to categorize and identify with one's race and ancestry.

These two political principles have remained sacrosanct for decades, even in the eyes of liberals. Did they seriously believe that they could pick and choose which groups of people are allowed to believe in these things and which ones weren't? Why would they embrace such beliefs if they didn't think they were good beliefs? Why would they be surprised that other people believe the exact same thing?

The way I see it, this is the price we pay for wanting to have our cake and eat it, too. This is the consequence of inconsistently applied principles. Either you believe in a set of principles or you don't.

If you believe that racism and nationalism are wrong, then you must also say that capitalism and identity politics are equally wrong. If you don't, then don't be surprised if racism and nationalism never go away. You can't have one without the other.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Is it me or does it seem that racism, xenophobia and nationalism are making a comeback?

And by that I don't mean that racism and nationalism ever left the building in the first place, but that their supporters have found enough popular support for their views that they feel it is relatively safe to discuss it in the open.

And by racism I don't just mean racism against black people, but also against whites, latinos, foreign nationalities etc.

From what I hear from some people is that racist, xenophobic and nationalist groups are even gaining influence in first world governments.

I have been gradually discovering, through my hobby of studying indoctrination and cults, that there are groups of people who think in a similar way and have similar sentiments to outwardly racist groups. But they use common surface level loaded language to maintain plausible deniability, and deny allegations of prejudice against them but eventually their true colours show through.

Two examples from opposite ends of the political spectrum is undercover white nationalists isolating the killings of white farmers in South Africa to say that there is a planned worldwide white genocide and an anti-white political party who want to claim land from white people, but maintain plausible deniability by using loaded language, but now have potentially shown their true colours with ongoing evidence possibly showing that the recent riots in South Africa were cause by local terrorists linked to this party, as everything points to strategic sabotage which is not something that the rioters would have been capable of.

So what do you guys think? Am I being delusional or is the world in for some serious trouble because of racism, xenophobia and nationalism? The first two world wars were caused by a mix of these mental states so could we potentially see a third world war because of them?
It is a rising problem in my country and in Europe generally. I'd say it is more nationalism and xenophobia than racism but it isn't easy to distinguish, it's just a complex in which all of that lives.
Interestingly it is the eastern parts of Germany and Europe, the former communist countries were that complex is most prevalent but their success has awakened the latent nationalism in the west also.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Racism went away? Must have missed that.

There was, however, a period when voicing racist views was not considered socially acceptable. It still isn't, really, nor should it be, but a combination of factors, driven by an organised and motivated far right, appear to have emboldened the bigots. This phenomenon is by no means limited to the USA or Europe, but there is a worrying recidivism in both regions. A resurgence of profoundly sinister nationalist sentiments, which reached a previous nadir in the 1930s.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Is it me or does it seem that racism, xenophobia and nationalism are making a comeback?

And by that I don't mean that racism and nationalism ever left the building in the first place, but that their supporters have found enough popular support for their views that they feel it is relatively safe to discuss it in the open.

And by racism I don't just mean racism against black people, but also against whites, latinos, foreign nationalities etc.

From what I hear from some people is that racist, xenophobic and nationalist groups are even gaining influence in first world governments.

I have been gradually discovering, through my hobby of studying indoctrination and cults, that there are groups of people who think in a similar way and have similar sentiments to outwardly racist groups. But they use common surface level loaded language to maintain plausible deniability, and deny allegations of prejudice against them but eventually their true colours show through.

Two examples from opposite ends of the political spectrum is undercover white nationalists isolating the killings of white farmers in South Africa to say that there is a planned worldwide white genocide and an anti-white political party who want to claim land from white people, but maintain plausible deniability by using loaded language, but now have potentially shown their true colours with ongoing evidence possibly showing that the recent riots in South Africa were cause by local terrorists linked to this party, as everything points to strategic sabotage which is not something that the rioters would have been capable of.

So what do you guys think? Am I being delusional or is the world in for some serious trouble because of racism, xenophobia and nationalism? The first two world wars were caused by a mix of these mental states so could we potentially see a third world war because of them?
I kind of expected there would be an uptick in racism. I mean it's pretty darn predictable in a 'woke' culture that uses racism itself to one's advantage that practices marginalization of one group over another and justifying their cause at another's expense to a degree that can be best described as overkill.

Things like that will always have a massive tempering effect, and further promote factioning and discord even if the reason behind doing so has a degree of validation.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
No, racism is not “worse than it was before”. What we do see a rise in however is the number of people who are so obsessed with finding racism everywhere they look that they create racism where it isn’t.
Exactly.

Especially in cases like critical race theory.


Almost make me want to join the "bad" guys, but that most certainly makes me a racist forevermore.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I kind of expected there would be an uptick in racism. I mean it's pretty darn predictable in a 'woke' culture that uses racism itself to one's advantage that practices marginalization of one group over another and justifying their cause at another's expense to a degree that can be best described as overkill.

Things like that will always have a massive tempering effect, and further promote factioning and discord even if the reason behind doing so has a degree of validation.


So don't speak out against racism, because doing so may upset the racists, and make them more racist?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Racism went away? Must have missed that.

There was, however, a period when voicing racist views was not considered socially acceptable. It still isn't, really, nor should it be, but a combination of factors, driven by an organised and motivated far right, appear to have emboldened the bigots. This phenomenon is by no means limited to the USA or Europe, but there is a worrying recidivism in both regions. A resurgence of profoundly sinister nationalist sentiments, which reached a previous nadir in the 1930s.

It really depends on how one defines it. If racism is defined by actual, overt political policies which are codified into law, then it's probably safe to say that most (if not all) of those laws and public policies have been done away with through legal means. The Jim Crow laws and other segregationist policies were done away with more than half a century ago, along with the Civil Rights act and numerous other laws and judicial precedents which might lead people to believe that racism was going away (although I don't think anyone ever believed it would go away entirely).

I don't think anyone actually missed that; it was and continues to be a prominent topic in media, politics, and public debate. But there might have been other things that escaped notice.

What I've noticed in more recent times is that almost no one uses any kind of overt racist language like it was once used. As you say, voicing racist views is/was not considered socially acceptable, but many have pointed out the use of code words, stealth language, and dog whistles, which are not overtly racist. They use terms which can be interpreted in different ways, so as to ensure (im)plausible deniability.

Moreover, the right could be trying to tar the left with the same brush. There have been those on the left who have made generalized, blanket statements about white people, which has the effect of emboldening those on the right who believe "if they can do it, we can do it."

Expressing views related to identity politics has remained socially acceptable, and as long as that remains the case, there will be those on the right who will feel vindicated and justified in expressing ideologically reflective, analogous viewpoints.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So don't speak out against racism, because doing so may upset the racists, and make them more racist?

I would amend that by saying it would be better if people didn't speak out against whites as a group (or use regionalism or classism in the process of speaking out against racism). Speak out against ideas, ideologies, and odious principles, but when it leads to scapegoating or tarring the innocent along with the guilty, then it can lead to problems.

I don't know if it would make the racists more racist than they are already. But if a white person feels that they're being put upon or criticized just because of their race, it might drive them into the waiting arms of white racists who will be more than happy to receive them.

So, speak out against racism and racists, but don't speak out against white people as if they're a monolithic group. That's where it goes wrong.

There's a subreddit which I won't link to (although I will provide it in PM if someone asks) where people find statements in social media or elsewhere where people say disparaging remarks about "whites" or "white males" in particular, and they take the same statement and substitute the word "Jews" to satirically change the effect of the statement. It's toxic as hell, and they should probably ban it, but I couldn't help but be curious about the whole thing. If nothing else, it just goes to show just how much toxicity there is out there.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
No, racism is not “worse than it was before”. What we do see a rise in however is the number of people who are so obsessed with finding racism everywhere they look that they create racism where it isn’t.
I do agree that there are people calling out racism where it doesn't actually exist.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
So people get called out more for being racist, and that's a bad thing??

No it isn't. It should be done. But there have been many cases where people have been called racist just because someone disagreed with them, questioned them or a theory they had, or had a different opinion that alone isn't necessarily linked to racism. That is a problem because it supports racist persecution complexes and has been causing more and more people to sympathize with racists.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
I also find it not uncommon for racist people to be vehement deniers of racism's reality in the society we live, Ironic, isn't it.

Yep. I have seen this too. And that is why I have a problem with the people who just use the term racist arbitrarily to get the upper hand. It gives the actual racists ammo to say that accusations against them are just irrational and ideological.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
It is a rising problem in my country and in Europe generally. I'd say it is more nationalism and xenophobia than racism but it isn't easy to distinguish, it's just a complex in which all of that lives.
Interestingly it is the eastern parts of Germany and Europe, the former communist countries were that complex is most prevalent but their success has awakened the latent nationalism in the west also.

You live in Israel right?

And yes, nationalism, xenophobia and racism are all linked. They are just different reasons to irrationally villainize those who are different.

I didn't realise that Eastern Europe had such a problem. But then I don't know much about those countries so...
 
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