Religion in school

[Rex]

Religion in the Public Schools
Introduction
The issue of the proper role of religion in the public schools continues to be the subject of great controversy. School officials, parents and students ­­ as well as lawyers and judges ­­ wrestle with these questions every day. However, clear standards and guidance are elusive. This handbook will help provide a road map through this terrain.

It is important to bear in mind that this issue is extremely complex. Decision makers must address many competing demands, invariably looking to balance the twin constitutional mandates of separation of church and state and the right to freely exercise religion. They must include in their thinking the needs and rights of both the religious and the nonreligious. Furthermore, decision makers must strive toward a vision of a pluralistic America that is open and welcoming to all groups, including religious minorities.

This subject matter, while complex, does not have to be divisive. School districts should set forth clear policies regarding religion in the public schools that satisfy both the letter and the spirit of the First Amendment. Parents should become involved in the process of discussing these policies with educators, and approach difficulties with an understanding that mistakes and misinformation, not malice, underlie a great many of the problems that typically arise in this area.

Addressing these concerns about civility does not mean that those involved should understate the importance of these issues, nor should they shy away from insisting that their concerns be heard and addressed. Rather, all of us should recognize, although we may define it differently, that our common goal is to ensure that the vision of religious liberty upon which this nation was founded is preserved. Few Americans would disagree that our individual religious freedom is extremely precious, and no one should be subjected to inappropriate religious coercion.

The Anti-Defamation League has been fighting anti-Semitism, racism and bigotry since 1913 and, to that end, we have been fighting for the rights of religious minorities to practice their religions freely and without government interference. As a result, we have developed an expertise in this area. We encourage you to reach out to your local Anti-Defamation League Regional Office any time you think we can be of assistance.


from:www.adl.org

 

[deahca2]

So many private schools to teach the religion of our choice and not offend anyone ( this includes atheists). In public schools we get a general education, religion ( correct me if I'm wrong) is not general but VERY specific. If someone cannot afford to send their children to a separate school to be taught their particular religion, then it should be taught at home by their parents and specifically taught as they believe it.
If religion does appear in schools, it should be completely impartial , perhaps Comparitive Religion? and taught as an ELECTIVE by those old enough to make this decision.
A specific religion, IMO< should not be taught in Public GENERAL education.
Deah

 

[Rex]

So many private schools to teach the religion of our choice and not offend anyone ( this includes atheists). In public schools we get a general education, religion ( correct me if I'm wrong) is not general but VERY specific. If someone cannot afford to send their children to a separate school to be taught their particular religion, then it should be taught at home by their parents and specifically taught as they believe it.
If religion does appear in schools, it should be completely impartial , perhaps Comparitive Religion? and taught as an ELECTIVE by those old enough to make this decision.
A specific religion, IMO< should not be taught in Public GENERAL education.
Deah

I can totally agree with that.

Give the student a choice of what they want to learn.

 

[RavenRose]

That is an interesting idea.

 

[ErikaLee]

It would be a good idea... except that the parents wouldn't let them make the decision. I know my parents wouldn't have.

EL

 

[Runt]

Deah said:

If religion does appear in schools, it should be completely impartial , perhaps Comparitive Religion? and taught as an ELECTIVE by those old enough to make this decision.

I agree with the first half but not the second half. I think children should be taught Comparative Religion from early childhood in school with the lectures revolving around "They believe" instead of "This is the way it is"/"this is the Truth". That way children will get a variety of worldviews as they grow up, can learn to see the merit in all religions, and can make an educated decision on their religious views later that is not simply based on "This is the way I was taught to believe by my parents".

I think this would help to end much of the animosity between different religions.

 

[deahca2]

Early age? Then it would be at the discretion of the parents. I doubt that a country with the predominant religion being one that has "the truth" will countinence ( sp?) any other view. The only reality, I see is having the course at a later age when the child is old enough to make their own decisions on the matter.

 

[Runt]

LOL, that is why I say it is a "should" and not a "will". I was speaking of the ideal situation in which all politicians see things my way and make policies accordingly.

Unfortunatly, we have too many people who insist on mixing politics with religion...

 

[ErikaLee]

I don't think it's right, but they do have numbers on their side. And they use them.

I also believe that nearly everything should be up to an open vote.. but my husband says that's a fallable process... bah! I say.

Anyway, Religion in School.. negative. School should be about Logic and Science and Facts - it should be kept that way. They can get Religion at home - I did, and that worked fine (for a time )

EL

 

[Runt]

I also believe that nearly everything should be up to an open vote.. but my husband says that's a fallable process... bah! I say.

The problem with true democracy is that it can actually lead to serious abuses of the minority by the majority. Representative democracy means that majority votes of representatives contain a far greater precentage of minority votes... especially since minority voting blocks are supposed to be kept intact when legislators draw district lines.

Anyway, Religion in School.. negative. School should be about Logic and Science and Facts - it should be kept that way. They can get Religion at home

I don't think kids should get religion in school so much as comparative religions. For example, in World History we studied Buddhism for a while, and the teacher said things like "The general beliefs of Buddhism include...the Eightfold Path basically says..." Thus, children would learn about world religions without the teachers actually being proponents of any.

The problem with leaving religion in the home is that, in truth, it is not fair to the children. Basically, parents brainwash their own kids from an early age so that, when they ARE old enough to make the decision for themselves as to what they want to believe, they are already firm "believers" because they have been TOLD what to believe instead of exploring to see what beliefs fit them best...

 

[ErikaLee]

That's true. But those that choose to, still ask questions and study for themselves. Which you can do and still be Christian, I'm not saying that all Christians are brainwashed. I like to see Christians that disagree with and form their own opinions about certain topics.

There are Christians that don't have a problem with Homosexuality.
There are Christians that don't proselytize and judge.
There are Christians that don't agree with every little thing that is fed them....

I know a Catholic woman that believes in her heart that women are absolved from the sin of Eve by Mary and Mary Magdalene being the only people to stay with Jesus throughout his crucifixion and never wavering in their belief in him.

Were the men strong enough to do this? No, Peter denied him 3 times and still claimed himself Jesus's successor and ran off to make the Catholic Church. She also calls him what he is: A Woman Hater.

So, there are always going to be those that question, it is what we as Humans do.

But I do think World Religions in a World History or Culture class is good. Thinking back, I actually got some of that in High School. Just the major 3 tho - Christianity, Judaeism and Islam.

EL

 

[Runt]

But I do think World Religions in a World History or Culture class is good. Thinking back, I actually got some of that in High School. Just the major 3 tho - Christianity, Judaeism and Islam.

I was fortunate enough to get a very young, very liberal teacher who was either agnostic or atheist (or possibly pagan) who taught religion with complete impartiality and allowed us to discuss whatever religion we wanted and present to the class on it. This is odd, because I live in a reletively religious (Christian religious) community that looks down upon other belief systems (though doesn't downright squash them... if I'd been in a different class and said I wanted to do a presentation on Paganism, the teacher would have said something like "But perhaps you should do a presentation on a more... well known religion. Take a look at Judiasm, for example, or Islam."

 

[ErikaLee]

Even those religions are safe to teach in school, as far as the Christian view goes, because they are not too far off from Christianity in reality.

Mostly Judaeism, but Islam as well has some of the same basic ideas... Monotheism, submission to God, subjugation of women (had to throw that in there, sorry).

You know? I never realized I was such a feminist... Hm...

Okay, so Religion in School - okay, "This Religion Is Right" in School - negative.

Also, where do you draw the line for teacher led religious groups on school property? In the school my husband works at they have Bible Study and Christian Groups, but the Chorus teacher wasn't allowed to have a Christmas program that featured any Christian songs for fear of insulting any Jewish or Non Christian Students... but fliers for Bible Study and Signs for Billy Graham visiting our city is okay.

EL

 

[Runt]

The Choir couldn't sing Christian music? Holy cow! What a sorry program... when we sing Christian music in school, it is with the understanding that we are studying the history of music, and the great creations of composers... even I, being pagan, not only don't mind singing Christian music, I actually think much of it has merit musically and would be unhappy if I DIDN'T have the opportunity to sing it!

 

[deahca2]

But still, at the core of this is PUBLIC ( i.e.general) education versus religious education. The public schools are geared , at this time, to general education for the student. Religion falls under personal. Personal is not general. right? So, leave it out and rely upon parents or schools that cater to a personal slant on religion. Seems fair.

Deah

 

[Colin_Admin]

Deah, I agree with you and also if they even tried to put religion into public education then their would be an even larger debate into which religion to teach. I think if they did put religion into public schools and they chose one religion, for arguments sake we will use christianity, then you will start seeing a large amount of parents who dont belive in christianity start relocating their children into schools that teach their religion. This will start a chain reaction and maybe lead to even more forms of racism.

 

[Runt]

Religion falls under personal. Personal is not general. right? So, leave it out and rely upon parents or schools that cater to a personal slant on religion. Seems fair.

Aye, but the problem is where to draw the line.

1. Cut Christian music out of choir programs.
2. Cut ANY religious music out of choir programs... this includes gospel music, most classical music, many contemporary pieces, all Christmas music ("Santa" is a Christian creation...a saint)
3. Do not teach about the early development of Europe in the CE, because that history is largely religious (it is basically the spread of Christianity, the development of different forms of Christianity, the problems between Christianity and various rulers, etc).
4. Do not teach about the Middle East, because much of the culture and the government there are dictated by religion.
5. Do not talk about issues like abortion, gay marriage, or other things that are generally argued against with a religious perspective.
6. Don't talk about the pilgrims coming to the US, because many came for religious reasons...
7. Don't let kids off school for Winter Break (because everyone knows they get off so families can celebrate their religious holidays--whether Christian, Pagan, or Jewish--together without the interference of school.) 8. Ban all personal expressions of ANY religion in students at school--don't allow kids to wear crosses, pentagrams, or other religious symbols.
9. Don't allow children to EVER use the word God in any context (whether as a curse or as a allusion)
10. Don't allow children to study poetry with religious allusions.
11. Don't allow kids to say the word "God" in the pledge of allegiance (or even say the pledge of allegiance) because it is a religous issue and not a general one.

The list goes on and on.

 

[deahca2]

Ok. I'm confused. What did you disagree with?
private schools ( posted in my last post) like Catholic, Muslim Jewish teach religion . Are they not the alternative rather than have a religion ( which one?) taught in public schools?
<<is very confused.

Deah

 

[Runt]

I was arguing that it is IMPOSSIBLE not to teach religion in some form in school. It is everywhere. To eradicate religion completely from public education would be stupid; whether or not we want to believe it, much of our history and our culture has been shaped by our religions. It is impossible to understand WHY we are the way we are without understanding what be believed, when we believed it, and how our beliefs shaped our culture, our government, and our history.

However, I think arguing because of a misunderstanding. You are saying that religion should not be taught (as in preached) in school because that is not fair to the excluded religions that are NOT teached (nor to the people in the school who follow those religions). I am saying that we should teach Comparative Religion as a culture/history class... in which ALL religions are covered (or as many of them as possible) in an academic rather than theological manner. Instead of preaching about the nature of God, students and teachers would discuss what each individual religion believes to be the nature of God, and how these beliefs have affected history and government and culture.

You see?

 

[deahca2]

I like the idea. comparative religion seems to be the answer, and I would HOPE that atheism would be covered within that course and the reasoning behind it. ATheists get too bad a rap, IMO.
Deah