Record number of Britons go abroad for healthcare.

[Terrywoodenpic]

It isn't an argument at all. It is a fact.

Nonsense.

The UK government controls the prices of healthcare in the UK.

It only controls its own prices. which do not influence the rest of the health care industry.

Maybe you don't understand what a price control is?

You are trying to compare apples with pears...
The NHS is public sector economics... these do not relate to the private sector economy.
Even your "Free public health care" is not run on a public sector economic basis, it is more of a franchise or contractual basis, run by the private sector for the Government and state; a quite different concept.

 

[Comprehend]

Nonsense.

It only controls its own prices. which do not influence the rest of the health care industry.



You are trying to compare apples with pears...
The NHS is public sector economics... these do not relate to the private sector economy.
Even your "Free public health care" is not run on a public sector economic basis, it is more of a franchise or contractual basis, run by the private sector for the Government and state; a quite different concept.

I think you honestly believe what you are saying, I am shocked that any one can but I don't think you are joking.

If your understanding of economics is what it appears to be, there is no point in us continuing our discussion.

 

[yossarian22]

Life expectancy at birth for males of any race in the UK is higher than for white males in the US (77.0 vs. 75.7). Life expectancy at birth for UK females of any race is about the same as for white females in the US (81.0 vs. 80.8).

The infant mortality rate in the United States is 7 per 1,000 overall, and 5.66 for non-Hispanic white women. The infant mortality rate in the UK for all races is 5 per 1,000.

On the other hand, we have have much higher adolescent fertility rate (4.3% for the US vs. 2.7% for the UK). Three cheers for abstinence-only education!

Where are the UK numbers coming from? I have seen at least 3 conflicting numbers so far.

Another bit, Until all the data can be broken down an compared, you can't just make conclusions off of averages.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I can understand why you guys keep trying to turn this into a "yeah but the US stinks worse!" argument.

You can say that all you want but I still have to ask; why is there a record number of people fleeing the UK system and it is projected to triple in 3 years? That sounds like the UK people are fed up with their healthcare. Free medical care has to REALLY stink before people will not only choose to pay for it, but travel to another country to get it.

You missed the bit where Terry and others (including myself) happened to mention that some of these people 'fleeing the horrors' of government health care are doing so in order to obtain treatments that either aren't necessarily legal in their own country or to get cheap cosmetic surgery with some lazing in the sun included, didn't you?
As to the lack of understanding of what constitutes price fixing, assuming it works the same way as it does here...the government says,'We believe (say) a 15 minute consult with a doctor should be worth $X, therefore that's what we're prepared to pay.' Some doctors agree and that's what they charge, therefore you pay nothing. Some doctors think,'I believe my 15 minutes is worth more than $X, therefore I'm charging an extra $X on top of that.'
Any medical practitioner in the country is entitled to charge whatever he thinks is a fair thing.You're not obliged to see him for your medical needs if you don't agree with him. I've yet to see enough people disagree with a doctor as to his worth that it forces them out of business. Sadly, in at least one case I can think of.
In my experience a doctor's opinion that they're worth some extra cash isn't necessarily an indicator that they're a better doctor than the guy who says,'Sign this and give it to the desk on your way out.' In fact, there's only been a single instance that I've personally found that to be the case, and as that was the obstetrician I used for all three of my pregnancies, price wasn't the only factor under consideration.
But then we've also got the case of one of the guys I work with, who is flying back to New Zealand this week to spend some time with his family and get some fairly comprehensive work done on his teeth. He's flying back to NZ to do it - not because he's especially desperate to see his family - because it costs him less to buy a plane ticket and go home for a couple of weeks to get it done, than it would to get it done here.Almost like paying less for something that isn't covered here and getting a holiday at the same time. Obviously that means he's fleeing the evils of our government health care.

 

[Smoke]

Where are the UK numbers coming from?

The World Health Organization.

 

[Comprehend]

You missed the bit where Terry and others (including myself) happened to mention that some of these people 'fleeing the horrors' of government health care are doing so in order to obtain treatments that either aren't necessarily legal in their own country or to get cheap cosmetic surgery with some lazing in the sun included, didn't you?

nope.

As to the lack of understanding of what constitutes price fixing, assuming it works the same way as it does here...the government says,'We believe (say) a 15 minute consult with a doctor should be worth $X, therefore that's what we're prepared to pay.' Some doctors agree and that's what they charge, therefore you pay nothing. Some doctors think,'I believe my 15 minutes is worth more than $X, therefore I'm charging an extra $X on top of that.'
Any medical practitioner in the country is entitled to charge whatever he thinks is a fair thing.You're not obliged to see him for your medical needs if you don't agree with him. I've yet to see enough people disagree with a doctor as to his worth that it forces them out of business. Sadly, in at least one case I can think of.
In my experience a doctor's opinion that they're worth some extra cash isn't necessarily an indicator that they're a better doctor than the guy who says,'Sign this and give it to the desk on your way out.' In fact, there's only been a single instance that I've personally found that to be the case, and as that was the obstetrician I used for all three of my pregnancies, price wasn't the only factor under consideration.
But then we've also got the case of one of the guys I work with, who is flying back to New Zealand this week to spend some time with his family and get some fairly comprehensive work done on his teeth. He's flying back to NZ to do it - not because he's especially desperate to see his family - because it costs him less to buy a plane ticket and go home for a couple of weeks to get it done, than it would to get it done here.Almost like paying less for something that isn't covered here and getting a holiday at the same time. Obviously that means he's fleeing the evils of our government health care.

When the govt sets the price of a procedure, that is called price control and whether it is followed uniformly or not, it alters the price of goods and services in the NHS and the private system.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

When the govt sets the price of a procedure, that is called price control and whether it is followed uniformly or not, it alters the price of goods and services in the NHS and the private system.

Only in dentistry does the Government set a price for a procedure.... This is the main reason Dentistry is so poorly served in the UK at the moment.

A doctor is paid in a complicated contract ... that pays for a set number of sessions a month a session is usually half a day. He must also meet certain targets .. vaccinations etc based on completing a set % of qualified patients in his practice. What he does in a session is up to him. My son in law saw 76 patients last Friday.. The surgery I go to, a doctor will not see more than 20 a day. Both doctors will be paid the same for their total time... If a doctor puts in extra time ( beyond his contract) as my son in law does , he is paid nothing for it.
My son in law will not take on private patients, others do.

There is not, as many people think, a uniform way in which doctors work in the UK.
If doctors could charge for, or be paid for, per patient seen or work done, the service would fall apart. The Government do not set the price for a procedure....

 

[Comprehend]

Only in dentistry does the Government set a price for a procedure.... This is the main reason Dentistry is so poorly served in the UK at the moment.

A doctor is paid in a complicated contract ... that pays for a set number of sessions a month a session is usually half a day. He must also meet certain targets .. vaccinations etc based on completing a set % of qualified patients in his practice. What he does in a session is up to him. My son in law saw 76 patients last Friday.. The surgery I go to, a doctor will not see more than 20 a day. Both doctors will be paid the same for their total time... If a doctor puts in extra time ( beyond his contract) as my son in law does , he is paid nothing for it.
My son in law will not take on private patients, others do.

There is not, as many people think, a uniform way in which doctors work in the UK.
If doctors could charge for, or be paid for, per patient seen or work done, the service would fall apart. The Government do not set the price for a procedure....

*sigh* :cover:

Yes they do. It is usually set at zero.