Quran 36 v 38

[Raymann]

I believe you are trying to say God didn't know that the earth rotated. I don't believe that for a minute. I believe God likes to communicate with us on a level we can understand and Jesus did that often.

No, I'm not saying Allah didn't know that the earth rotates.
I'm saying that the prophet Muhammad made scientifically wrong statements and claimed those statements came directly from Allah. So was Muhammad lying all along?
Allah couldn't have made those mistakes.
God cannot make that kind of mistake.
Did Muhammad lie about the revelations?
Did he lie about some of the revelations?
Either way, something doesn't add up.

 

[Raymann]

Definition of illusion: misrepresentation of a “real” sensory stimulu..that is, an interpretation that contradicts objective “reality” as defined by general agreement.
So, as per definition it is an illusion.

Wrong again.
Following your own definition.
It is an illusion ONLY IF YOU MISINTERPRET WHAT YOU SEE.
If you think sunset is the sun rotating around planet earth and settling somewhere out of our sight then THAT IS AN ILLUSION.
On the other hand, if I see a sunset and interpret that what is happening is the earth rotating, and at some point, we can no longer see the sun. THAT IS NOT AN ILLUSION.
The same sunset two different interpretations.

 

[stvdv]

Wrong again.

Misreading my text again

On the other hand, if I see a sunset and interpret that what is happening is the earth rotating, and at some point, we can no longer see the sun. THAT IS NOT AN ILLUSION.

Exactly, that has been my point all the time

 

[Raymann]

↑Raymann said
On the other hand, if I see a sunset and interpret that what is happening is the earth rotating, and at some point, we can no longer see the sun. THAT IS NOT AN ILLUSION.

Exactly, that has been my point all the time

No, it hasn't been your point
This has been your point all along.

The sunset is an illusion. The sun never "sets", the earth rotates around it's axis, creating the illusion that the sun "sets".

Do you see your confusion?
Illusion = misinterpretation
No misinterpretation = No illusion
Read carefully, you're contradicting yourself.
If you know the science of sunset then it is not an illusion.
if you don't (ignorance) then IT IS AN ILLUSION.
Is it that hard to admit it?

 

[stvdv]

↑Raymann said
On the other hand, if I see a sunset and interpret that what is happening is the earth rotating, and at some point, we can no longer see the sun. THAT IS NOT AN ILLUSION.

No, it hasn't been your point
This has been your point all along.
....
Is it that hard to admit it?

It seems to me that you misread, misinterpret or just want to see faults in my replies. I don't play with words here.
I will put my replies below here, so you can see. Don't read more into what I wrote. My answers were simple and not false.

The sun will not shine forever, so it is running towards it stopping point
Here the Koran (God) gives a hint that even the sun "dies" like humans "die"

Title was about Koran 36:38. My answer to Koran 36:38 was very simple and clear. Verse 36:38 just means that in the end the sun will "die"

1: It seems to me that Allah is simply describing a 24-hour cycle (day and night)
2: Now notice how verse 38 looks totally out of place if we use this common Muslim translation.
3: That doesn't make any sense in the whole context.
4: Anyone can think of a better translation to make sense of the 4 verses together?

I think here starts the miscommunication between us.I did not see "common Muslim translation" as what you call "out of place"
Because of 1:+2:, I thought you meant, a 24 hour cycle was meant in verse 36:38 and you added more confusion with below reply of yours

See, most of you ignore the fact that the sun stops every 24 hours in its resting place where Allah decides to give or not permission for the sun to rise again.

I disagree with what you call a fact here, "that the sun stops every 24 hours in its resting place".
Hence my reply below

You claim that the sun stops every 24 hours in its resting place
That sounds like the sun follows the earth with it's 24h ritme
But even then, the earth does not stop spinning as far as I know
How do you know this to be a fact? Does the sun stop shining?

Hence my simple reply explaining that "spinning of the earth is the 24 hour what people call sunset".
Hence I said "It is an illusion that the sun is setting every 24 hours". The sun is "setting" (stopping) NOT every 24 hours (it might die out 1 day)

Then you asked me again something to which I gave a lengthy reply (I added that I see no use in debating about this)
Quran 36 v 38

I think there was just some miscommunication. I gave my translation/interpretation of the verses.
Your lines in red were confusing, probably you meant something else than what you wrote
And if not, then it's fine with me too. Then we have a different opinion. And I agree to disagree

 

[Raymann]

Title was about Koran 36:38. My answer to Koran 36:38 was very simple and clear. Verse 36:38 just means that in the end the sun will "die"

And that is incorrect. That is wrong. That is not what the verse meant. There is only one interpretation, not two nor three.
The only possible interpretation is the one explained by prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad was the one who received the revelation and we have to assume he is the only one who knows the correct interpretation.
You cannot have your own interpretation.
You can agree or disagree with the veracity of the verse.
You can suspect the science on this verse doesn't add up but you cannot disagree with the meaning. Muhammad said the meaning of Quran 36.38 is that the sun rests (stops or whatever) every 24 hours after sunset waiting for Allah to give it permission to rise again.
Yes, there would be a time when the sun will die but this verse doesn't talk about that. This is about what happens every 24 hours.
Very simple, nothing to interpret, very clear.

 

[stvdv]

And that is incorrect. That is wrong.

Thank you for your opinion

That is not what the verse meant. There is only one interpretation, not two nor three.

Thank you for your opinion

You can suspect the science on this verse doesn't add up but you cannot disagree with the meaning.

Wow, that is quite arrogant, telling me what I should believe or not or that I cannot disagree with the meaning

Muhammad said the meaning of Quran 36.38 is that the sun rests (stops or whatever) every 24 hours after sunset waiting for Allah to give it permission to rise again.

I don't care what Muhammad says the interpretation is. Muhammad is just a man; so errors. I only care what Allah meant with the verse = the Truth

 

[Raymann]

I don't care what Muhammad says the interpretation is. Muhammad is just a man; so errors. I only care what Allah meant with the verse = the Truth

Thank you for your input. I rest my case.

 

[Muffled]

Definition of illusion: misrepresentation of a “real” sensory stimulu..that is, an interpretation that contradicts objective “reality” as defined by general agreement.

So, as per definition it is an illusion.
Good comparison would be: In the dark you see a snake coiled on the ground. You switch on the light and see it's just a rope

I believe your example shows why a setting sun is not an illusion. When we turned on the light of science we learned why the sun sets not that it doesn't set..

 

[stvdv]

I believe your example shows why a setting sun is not an illusion.
When we turned on the light of science we learned why the sun sets not that it doesn't set..

Thank you for your view. We seem to disagree, but I am fine if others believe differently.

When I turned on the light of science I learned that the sun is NOT "setting".
I learned that the spinning earth caused the illusion that it seems as if the sun "sets"