Quiddity vs. Prophet - The meaning of Kingdom of God

[Quiddity]

I've only done this one other time so we won't make it very formal other then to be charitalbe and make an effort to address each others points.

You said you'd like to debate:....the meaning of Jesus' words in instances he used the phrase "Kingdom of God"

Please clarify and expand your position to begin.

 

[Prophet]

I currently believe the common Catholic viewpoint on the Kingdom of God is similar to most fundamentalist definitions of heaven. More or less, you are on trial as long as you are alive, and the judgement on your worthiness of the Kingdom of God comes after you die.

I believe viewing the Kingdom of God as heaven reduces Jesus' words on it to meaningless drivel. Jesus was talking about Enlightenment when he spoke of the Kingdom of God. Jesus called it the Kingdom of God because Enlightened beings act and speak according to the Law of God, superseding all laws and kingdoms of men.

This Law of God is composed of one law: Be selfless.

 

[Quiddity]

I thought we were going to play nice?

Are these selfless beings able to show some humility?

For us…the kingdom of God…is not strictly an eschatological reality. Throughout history the exegetical work done on texts that pertain to the the kingdom of God……has concluded that it speaks of the kingdom of God as something that is not only a distance away in another dimension somewhere but also in a terrestrial manner.

St. Thomas Aquinas notes it this way:

“The kingdom of God is spoken of by preference (as it were) in a double sense: first, as the group of those who walk in faith, and in this sense the Church militant is called the ‘kingdom of God’; but then also as the assembly of those who have already safely attained their goal, and in this sense the triumphant Church is called the ‘kingdom of God.”

Commentary on the Fourth Book of the Sentences of Peter Lombard, Dist. 49, q. 1, a. 2, quaest. 5, sol. 5.

In short, you can find verses that speak of the kingdom of God that mean heaven and find other verses that speak of it as “the people of God”……which is the Church.

 

[Prophet]

First off, you asked for this debate, not me. Second, I only attacked beliefs, not you. You, in turn, implied that I am an arrogant jerk. Is this your example of civil behavior for me to follow? Is this level of ad hominem commensurate with what I should be expecting with the majority of RF staffers?

Call it chickening out, but I'm not sure I wish to debate you.

1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

 

[Quiddity]

We have rules in this forum that I'm subject to as much as you are. If you think I broke any of them, report me.......it's that simple.

My conscience is clear and I am puzzled at your reaction. Not once did I attack you in my previous post.

Also, you need to go back and read the initial invitational post. I never once begged you to debate me. It was simly a "if you are interested"...type of invitation. I would have been just fine if you had said no.

Anyways, peace be with you.

 

[Prophet]

I thought we were going to play nice?

Are these selfless beings able to show some humility?

So, you are claiming that this is not thinly veiled ad hominem couched in the hypocrisy of you using it to accuse me of being uncivil? My claim is that this quote is exactly what you deny. I don't think this is a debate you want any piece of.

As far as the Kingdom of God goes, there's simply no purpose for debating this with you. When I disagreed with your view, you took it as personal insult, and started flinging trash at me. On your profile page, you claim to be a sincere seeker of truth "no matter what you find". I challenge that claim as well. Sincere seekers of truth do not attach themselves to beliefs as you clearly demonstrated when you took offense to my challenges. You force yourself to find what you want to find, without regard to the Truth.

When you are attached to anything, your ability to reason regarding that thing is crippled because you identify with it. If you identify with a belief, an attack on it will be seen as an attack on you. You are not debating in a way to seek the Truth. You are debating as if destroying that belief will destroy you as well.

If only you were so lucky to be destroyed in such a way. You would then know what it means to be born again.

 

[Quiddity]

So, you are claiming that this is not thinly veiled ad hominem couched in the hypocrisy of you using it to accuse me of being uncivil? My claim is that this quote is exactly what you deny. I don't think this is a debate you want any piece of.

As far as the Kingdom of God goes, there's simply no purpose for debating this with you. When I disagreed with your view, you took it as personal insult, and started flinging trash at me. On your profile page, you claim to be a sincere seeker of truth "no matter what you find". I challenge that claim as well. Sincere seekers of truth do not attach themselves to beliefs as you clearly demonstrated when you took offense to my challenges. You force yourself to find what you want to find, without regard to the Truth.

When you are attached to anything, your ability to reason regarding that thing is crippled because you identify with it. If you identify with a belief, an attack on it will be seen as an attack on you. You are not debating in a way to seek the Truth. You are debating as if destroying that belief will destroy you as well.

If only you were so lucky to be destroyed in such a way. You would then know what it means to be born again.

You're projecting.

I take things personally, yes. But this one....is definately not one of them......not even close. I've been here long enough to know people are going to attack/criticize my beliefs and such is the nature of dialogues at times.

And as far as your whole "not attaching" rant.......pure hogwash. No one is immune from this....but you can certainly convince yourself it. Your delusions and attachments are no better then mine. The difference is that you seem to be unaware or refuse to accept you do.

Your proposal is blatantly self-defeating. But you right in thinking I do not wish to debate you. Not anymore I don't.

 

[Prophet]

For example, if you are attached to an irrational belief that God becomes man by impregnating virgins, you will be willing to ignore an entire epoch of historical and scientific evidence which suggests humans all reproduce sexually in order to hold onto this belief.

How can any being be reasoned out of such an attached and irrationally held belief? I'm not going to veil it like you do. I'll say what I think straight up: You are a fundamentalist. You do not care about the Truth. You only care about your truth.

When fundamentalists came to trip up the being you deify, they enjoyed similar treatment to what you are receiving right now.

 

[Quiddity]

I didn't know it required scientific evidence to show me how a baby comes to be...Really? :areyoucra

I'd be more then happy to read the scientific evidence that God did not impregnate a virgin. What scientist took on that task?

Well, I suppose since you know me so well, I don't know what else I can tell you other then to run to the woods and go practice my irrational and delusional beliefs with pixy fairies...

Your trite slogans and age-old drivel is nothing new to me bud.

You can either diaglogue with us or dismiss us. No one forced you to come and talk to a fundamentalist (according to you). You know where the door is.

 

[Prophet]

Sexual reproduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lot of great info there.