Questions regarding Setianism and its goals

[Tenebras Aeterna]

I am new here and greet you, wanderers of darkness!

First about myself. I have described myself as a theistic Satanist for about a decade with a growing interest in Setianism and the ToS. I made most of my spiritual experiences in night and darkness, with deep introspection, often while listening to music. This may be a weak ritual and I’ve done some real rituals, but I think I haven’t done ritual MAGIC yet. So, even if I’m following the dark path since many years, I see myself just at the beginning.

I’ve got some questions about Setianism in general and the goal of it. Let’s begin!

1. Of course, it is important to take time for LHP. Like a Christian who goes to church every Sunday. My impression of Setianism is daily practice and persistent discipline, which in contrast is more reminiscent of a Muslim who prays five times a day. To what extent is such a comparison appropriate? Is Setianism the right thing for someone who don’t want to practice every single day?

2. How important is Crowley or Magic in general? Can someone be a Setian without Ritual Magic?

3. Undoubtedly, mathematics is wonderful. Calculation not inevitably. How well versed in mathematics do a Setian need to be?


4. Setianism repeatedly speaks of inanimate nature, in contrast to which stands isolated intelligence. To describe a bacterium, a plant, the planet or the universe as inanimate seems untrue to me. Like we see an ant as strictly instinctive, an alien superior to humanity could see us in the same way. Linguists assume that aliens would not be able to detect any significant difference in our various languages because they are similar in structure and production.

Various quantum physicists tend to reject a dead nature and oppose materialism in many respects. Hans-Peter Dürr, theoretical son of Werner Heisenberg, sees “mind” as the driving force in the universe and tends to take a pantheistic viewpoint. In essence, he does not differentiate between you and me; in his opinion, this is an illusion. Like two waves that see themselves as something separate but are in fact the same ocean.

Part of the ocean is also culture and language, for example. We can talk about objective reality and understand what we mean, even if the world looks different from the standpoint of another wave. I interpret the reasoning, recognizing element as isolated intelligence. However, it is conceivable that the ocean wants to look at itself from an infinite variety of points of view, wants to live, wants do destroy, wants to create, wants to improve itself, within every single atom.

To simplify, let’s call this ocean “God”. If we do, then I am God, and everything outside of me is also God. In a way, you, your appearance, your words etc. are/become realized in myself. In a way, if I am non-existent, you’re also non-existent.

This is more complicate with subjectivity. Your subjectivity is not “me”, but very much an “I”. Is this “I” not the Prince of Darkness itself? Then, what is the difference from the ocean, and from what is the intelligence isolated? And from this point of view, wouldn't it be self-betrayal to deny the self to be this ocean / God, and work against it?

I'm not really familiar with Kabbalah and Qliphoth. If I understand it correctly, a Qliphoth is an encapsulated bubble; a wave, so to speak, that wants to remain a wave. If this is called a Qliphoth may be false, but I understood this principle as the goal of a Setian. Am I making a mistake in my thinking?

And what are your thoughts?


Hail!

 

[1137]

I am new here and greet you, wanderers of darkness!

This is the first time someone else has used a term I coined an it is a TRIP.

1. Of course, it is important to take time for LHP. Like a Christian who goes to church every Sunday. My impression of Setianism is daily practice and persistent discipline, which in contrast is more reminiscent of a Muslim who prays five times a day. To what extent is such a comparison appropriate? Is Setianism the right thing for someone who don’t want to practice every single day?

It depends what you mean by "daily practice." If you are speaking of like ceremonial ritual or something I would say definitely not. However, the very way I live my life, that I think about the world, I would say is "Setian," so in that sense yes, daily, hourly even, moment to moment. The same goes for magic, I don't think magic is something you do sometimes, its the way you live your life, the way you think and understand the world around you. I almost never do actual ceremony/ritual, and I do not think you need to. However, the practices are not as relevant of a question as if one has a relationship with Setesh.

2. How important is Crowley or Magic in general? Can someone be a Setian without Ritual Magic?

Crowley is as important as you find him. Personally I like AL but nothing else, which I would argue was Setesh not Crowley anyways. A "Setian" is simply a henotheist who honors Setesh above the other gods, ritual magic comes down to individual desires/needs.

3. Undoubtedly, mathematics is wonderful. Calculation not inevitably. How well versed in mathematics do a Setian need to be?

Zero. I am awful at math and am curious what prompts the question?

4. Setianism repeatedly speaks of inanimate nature, in contrast to which stands isolated intelligence. To describe a bacterium, a plant, the planet or the universe as inanimate seems untrue to me. Like we see an ant as strictly instinctive, an alien superior to humanity could see us in the same way. Linguists assume that aliens would not be able to detect any significant difference in our various languages because they are similar in structure and production.

This whole "isolate intelligence" thing is more a Temple of Set specific thing that an actual Setian thing. This is definitely not how Setesh was understood to our ancestors or even most modern polytheists though. I think it was a holdover from Aquino being unable to let go of Satanism. Setesh more represents the strength of free will, the separation from determinism, individuation in one's own direction. It is not so much animate vs inanimate, but spiritual vs material.

Various quantum physicists tend to reject a dead nature and oppose materialism in many respects. Hans-Peter Dürr, theoretical son of Werner Heisenberg, sees “mind” as the driving force in the universe and tends to take a pantheistic viewpoint. In essence, he does not differentiate between you and me; in his opinion, this is an illusion. Like two waves that see themselves as something separate but are in fact the same ocean.

This more leans towards idealism which I would say Setianism, both ancient and modern, rejects. I would go so far as to reject dualism as well, it is more a type of pluralism, like the platonic forms. You and I are distinct, as is everyone else, as is matter, as are the gods.

To simplify, let’s call this ocean “God”. If we do, then I am God, and everything outside of me is also God. In a way, you, your appearance, your words etc. are/become realized in myself. In a way, if I am non-existent, you’re also non-existent.

I would say this is much more in keeping with Eastern ideas than Egyptian/modern LHP ideas. It is more like the opposite: you exist, I exist, IT exists, THEY exist, the gods exist.

This is more complicate with subjectivity. Your subjectivity is not “me”, but very much an “I”. Is this “I” not the Prince of Darkness itself? Then, what is the difference from the ocean, and from what is the intelligence isolated? And from this point of view, wouldn't it be self-betrayal to deny the self to be this ocean / God, and work against it?

The "I" is just that, "I". It is nothing else, it is not Setesh, it is not the brain, it is you. This is what people fail to realize, even on the LHP: you are already a god. Anyone telling you to "become a living god" or anything similar is trying to sell you something you already have, ideas like "deification" are red herrings because you are already deified. You just have to remember and then get back to where you belong instead of this realm.

 

[1137]

I also am probably the only one here @Tenebras Aeterna . You may want to try

A Subreddit for the God Set/Seth/Setesh/Sutekh • r/Setianism

A subreddit dedicated to the Egyptian God Set/Seth/Setesh/Sutekh

old.reddit.com

 

[Tenebras Aeterna]

Thanks for your response, 1137!

This is the first time someone else has used a term I coined an it is a TRIP.

English isn't my native language - is TRIP meant as an abbreviation?
I found this term fitting here. Didn't want to "steal" anything ;-).

It depends what you mean by "daily practice." If you are speaking of like ceremonial ritual or something I would say definitely not. However, the very way I live my life, that I think about the world, I would say is "Setian," so in that sense yes, daily, hourly even, moment to moment. The same goes for magic, I don't think magic is something you do sometimes, its the way you live your life, the way you think and understand the world around you. I almost never do actual ceremony/ritual, and I do not think you need to. However, the practices are not as relevant of a question as if one has a relationship with Setesh.

Well spoken. This comes close to my way of life.
A relationship with Set is something I am building. It's not easy to break all religious influence and to view Set in another light than Satan.

Crowley is as important as you find him. Personally I like AL but nothing else, which I would argue was Setesh not Crowley anyways. A "Setian" is simply a henotheist who honors Setesh above the other gods, ritual magic comes down to individual desires/needs.

Basically, every Religion is henotheistic but choose younger gods or demiurgs like YHWH. To embrace darkness and forces that many consider as evil, is a hard way and not for everyone. But there is the light of wisdom waiting for the ones strong enough.

Zero. I am awful at math and am curious what prompts the question?

I thought that math was a prerequisite for people who are well versed in magic and, for example, have gained wisdom at "solving Crowley's number puzzles" (don't know if these would be the correct words in English for what I mean). Also, many magical initiation orders deal with numbers. The ToS sees itself in the tradition of the Pythagoreans, at least in parts and if I have understood it correctly. Hence my question.

This whole "isolate intelligence" thing is more a Temple of Set specific thing that an actual Setian thing. This is definitely not how Setesh was understood to our ancestors or even most modern polytheists though. I think it was a holdover from Aquino being unable to let go of Satanism. Setesh more represents the strength of free will, the separation from determinism, individuation in one's own direction. It is not so much animate vs inanimate, but spiritual vs material.

Didn't knew that this term is a ToS specifing thing alone. But I cannot see your link to Aquino / Satanism, as Satanism don't have this principle necessarily. Spiritual vs. material is surely something that is not regarded in (at least atheistic) Satanism.

((Note from Tenebras Aeterna: Could not quote my quote in your post; following referred to my approach on quantum physics.))

This more leans towards idealism which I would say Setianism, both ancient and modern, rejects. I would go so far as to reject dualism as well, it is more a type of pluralism, like the platonic forms. You and I are distinct, as is everyone else, as is matter, as are the gods.

I would say this is much more in keeping with Eastern ideas than Egyptian/modern LHP ideas. It is more like the opposite: you exist, I exist, IT exists, THEY exist, the gods exist.

The "I" is just that, "I". It is nothing else, it is not Setesh, it is not the brain, it is you. This is what people fail to realize, even on the LHP: you are already a god. Anyone telling you to "become a living god" or anything similar is trying to sell you something you already have, ideas like "deification" are red herrings because you are already deified. You just have to remember and then get back to where you belong instead of this realm.

It is true that this was a pantheistic view. This makes it a belief system and should be questioned. However, I cannot doubt the fact that I am I. When we refer to what is, we are indeed not the same, but individual and spiritual beings who are able to perceive and influence the world (and ourselves).

I also am probably the only one here @Tenebras Aeterna . You may want to try...

Apparently. I am surprised that this is the case.
I appreciate the link!