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Question to Christians - Phyisical Israel and Spiritual Israel

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Ehav4Ever, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2020
    Torath Mosheh
    Questions to Christians:

    My understanding is that many Christian sects hold that a "spiritual Israel" has replaced the Israel that received the Torah at Mount Sinai. My understanding is that when Christians state "spiritual Israel" they are referencing themselves, Christianity or their particular sect of Christianity. This brings up the following questions.
    1. If the god you beleive in is willing to replace a group he had previously invested in, could it stand to reason that he could replace the Christianity with someone else and something else?
      • I.e. if he was willing to replace the Israel that he gave the Torah to at Mount Sinai for various reasons couldn't he do the same with Christians if they don't follow his directives?
    2. Is there a part of the New Testament that promises that the "spiritual Israel," which I am assuming are Christians, won't be replaced by another group in the future?
      • For example, maybe Christianity was replaced with Islam.
      • Also, maybe, the Jewish Christians were replaced by the early Catholic Church, then the early Catholics were replaced with the Protestants, maybe they were replaced with the Mormons, and maybe they were replaced with the JW, so and so.
      • Is it possible that the god you beleive could change his directives from what is found in the New Testament to something else?
    3. What are the signs, in the modern day, that the god you beleive in has replaced physical Israel with a spiritual Israel?
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Actually the God we believe in, is the God of all mankind (and even of the ETs, if they exist).
    There are no "groups". There is mankind.

    The Christians who don't follow His directives are called the wicked in the Gospel. As Matthew says, the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.

    No...Revelation clearly predicts what is going to happen, being the last book of the ancient Testament. And it had warned us about untrue prophets.

    Possible. There are several Churches. And Christians are free to decide which one they find the true one. Which one to join. Nevertheless...the differences among Churches are less and less relevant, when it comes to Christ and what he has taught us.

    Not possible, as Revelation says.

    The message of Love that Jesus Christ has taught us. That bettering the world is possible.

    This thread is a very good idea.:);)
    I can't wait to read other answers
    • Like Like x 1
  3. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    For Christians there is the God of Israel and no other, and he has not replaced his first chosen.

    Neither has been replaced and remain in a valid covenant with God.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

    Jul 14, 2017
    Syncretic Universal Monotheism
    Genesis 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on ...
    The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the
    earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

    1 Samuel 15:35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see ...
    ... him. And the LORD regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.

    Job 12:23
    He makes nations great, and destroys them; he enlarges nations, and disperses them.
    24 He deprives the earth’s leaders of reason and makes them wander in a trackless wasteland

    Acts 17:26
    From one man He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.

    “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” Matthew 21:43

    “I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.” Numbers 14:12

    “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” Romans 9:6-8

    “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ” Galatians 3:16

    “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Galatians 3:29

    “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:7

    “For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.” Philippians 3:3

    “He came unto his own, and his own received him not. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:11-13

    “And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.” Jeremiah 3:8

    “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” Romans 2:28-29

    “Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
    Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” John 18:35-36

    “And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.” Acts 2:5

    “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:28

    Deuteronomy 18:14-
    13You must be blameless before the LORD your God. 14Though these nations, which you will dispossess, listen to conjurers and diviners, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so.
    15The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to him. 16This is what you asked of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the LORD our God or see this great fire anymore, so that we will not die!”17Then the LORD said to me, “They have spoken well.
    18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.19And I will hold accountable anyone who does not listen to My words that the prophet speaks in My name.
    20But if any prophet dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or to speak in the name of other gods, that prophet must be put to death.”21You may ask in your heart, “How can we recognize a message that the LORD has not spoken?”
    22When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD and the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

    The Fall of Rome - A Quranic Prophecy
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

    Jul 14, 2017
    Syncretic Universal Monotheism
    Part 2:
    Indeed, God has shown the truth in His Apostle’s true vision: most certainly shall you enter the Inviolable House of Worship, if God so wills, in full security, with your heads shaved or your hair cut short, without any fear: for He has [always] known that which you yourselves could not know. And He has ordained [for you], besides this, a victory soon to come

    48:6 And [God has willed] to impose suffering [in the life to come] on the hypocrites, both men and women, and on those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him, both men and women: all who entertain evil thoughts about God. Evil encompasses them from all sides, and God’s condemnation rests upon them; and He has rejected them [from His grace], and has readied hell for them: and how evil a journey’s end

    Jeremiah 31:30 -
    30Instead, each will die for his own iniquity. If anyone eats the sour grapes, his own teeth will be set on edge. 31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.32It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

    “Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:, If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.” Jeremiah 31:35-37


    Bible Verses Like Jeremiah 5:15
    “Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.”

    Bible verses related to is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say." style="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; list-style: none; box-sizing: border-box; border: 0px; outline: none; cursor: pointer; color: inherit;">Jeremiah 5:15 (similar cross-references)

    Deuteronomy 28:49 - The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; (Verses like Deuteronomy 28:49)

    Isaiah 5:26 - And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: (Verses like Isaiah 5:26)

    Isaiah 28:11 - For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. (Verses like Isaiah 28:11)

    Jeremiah 4:16 - Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah. (Verses like Jeremiah 4:16)

    Isaiah 33:19 - Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand. (Verses like Isaiah 33:19)

    Jeremiah 1:15 - For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah. (Verses like Jeremiah 1:15)

    Isaiah 5:7 - For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry. (Verses like Isaiah 5:7)

    Isaiah 29:3 - And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee. (Verses like Isaiah 29:3)

    Isaiah 29:6 - Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire. (Verses like Isaiah 29:6)

    Jeremiah 2:26 - As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets, (Verses like Jeremiah 2:26)

    Jeremiah 5:11 - For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the LORD. (Verses like Jeremiah 5:11)

    Jeremiah 6:22 - Thus saith the LORD, Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and a great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth. (Verses like Jeremiah 6:22)

    Jeremiah 9:26 - Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart. (Verses like Jeremiah 9:26)
  6. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

    Jul 14, 2017
    Syncretic Universal Monotheism
    Part 3:

    Jeremiah 25:9 - Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. (Verses like Jeremiah 25:9)

    Ezekiel 18:31 - Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Verses like Ezekiel 18:31)

    Daniel 2:37-38 - Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. (Verses like Daniel 2:37)

    Daniel 7:7 - After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (Verses like Daniel 7:7)

    Habakkuk 1:5-10 - Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not theirs. They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves. Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat. They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it. (Verses like Habakkuk 1:5)

    Matthew 3:9-10 - And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (Verses like Matthew 3:9)

    1 Corinthians 14:21 - In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. (Verses like 1 Corinthians 14:21)

    1 John 2:22 – Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
  7. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2014
    This is an interesting question.

    Genesis 32:27-30. 'And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
    And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel [A prince of God]: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.'

    Jacob called the place Peniel because he had seen God 'face to face'.

    When Ezekiel prophesies of the future union of Israel and Judah he says, 'And David my servant shall be king over them: and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
    And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.'
    [Ezekiel 37:24,25]

    Romans 11:25,26. 'For I would not, brethren, that ye be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'

    IMO, the difference between Jacob and Israel is important. A prince, Israel, has power with God and with men. There was an individual called Israel, but there was also a people called Israel. The individual Israel is head over the body, the corporate Israel. Both the head and the body are resurrected: 'Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.' [Ezekiel 37:12]

    To my understanding, both Jews and Gentiles make up the body of Christ, the true Israel. The nation of Israel (in the flesh) is blind until the 'fulness of the Gentiles be come in'.

    Zechariah 12:9.
    'And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
    And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.'

    One thing is very clear to me, and that is that there is only one Messiah, and all the prophecies of the Bible point to Jesus Christ as that Messiah. He has yet to return for his flock and bring vengeance, but he reigns in heaven even now, as I understand.

  8. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

    May 24, 2017
    Eastern Orthodox
    As to 3), would any Christian really think "God changed His mind"? That seems...beyond ludicrous (and nonsensical based on my definition of God - the ground of being).

    If someone viewed God as some creature with emotions, etc. (like the Greek gods) then the question makes sense.
  9. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

    Jul 14, 2017
    Syncretic Universal Monotheism
    Anyway, it looks to me that there is ample scriptural content available which could be used towards at the very least implying that a "True Jew" is not based on nationality or ethnicity or blood really, but rather in the devotion to God and God's commandments and fear of God, and that Christianity promoted the view of a more "spiritual Kingdom" and community or "Body of Christ", and furthermore, the Jews who deny that Jesus is the Messiah sent to them are considered excluded as "antichrist" (Christ being the translation for the word Messiah).

    Finally, the Muslims reject using terminology like "Father and Son" but consider Jesus the "Christ" or "Messiah" sent to the Jews of the time, but reject Trinitarianism and Mainstream Christian views.

    The stammering Prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy is considered by some to be Muhammed, the person from among the "Brothers" who would have God's words put in his mouth, which is literally the claim the Qur'an makes and what the Qur'an is supposed to be. Islam was also hugely successful as compared to "Bahai" religion for example.

    The Qur'an threatens people with replacement:
    Ayah at-Taubah (Repentance) 9:39 Renditions at IslamAwakened.com
    Ayah Hud (Hud) 11:57 at IslamAwakened.com
    Ayah an-Nisa` (Women) 4:133 Renditions at IslamAwakened.com

    O you who have attained to faith! If you ever abandon your faith," God will in time bring forth [in your stead] people whom He loves and who love Him - humble towards the believers, proud towards all who deny the truth: [people] who strive hard in God's cause, and do not fear to be censured by anyone who might censure them: such is God's favour, which He grants unto whom He wills. And God is infinite, all-knowing

    Its supposed to be the same God basically, and so this attitude is likely to be read retro-actively into the Bible reading, where God in the Bible then appears to similarly threaten people who do not abide by the religion or its commandments with replacement, abandonment, destruction, and whatever else.

    Many Christians these days tend to fetishize Jewish people and Judaism, but this was not always the case in Christian history, and for the most part, Jews have been considered the people who reject Jesus as Christ and the "Father and Son" and are thus the "Antichrist" people, or among them, also they "call themselves Jews, but are not, they are the Synagogue of Satan", meaning that these deniers of Jesus Christ are considered bad guys:

    Luke 19:27
    But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

    The Old Testament, The New Testament, and the Qur'an all seem to harbor very negative opinions of the Jewish people in various verses, which has no doubt led to a lot of "anti-Semitism" or "anti-Jewish" sentiments overall and throughout history, but many other nations and peoples likely seemed to have historically despised the Jews as well.

    It can be expected that the Jews were despised by all the nations that they were at war with, and that the nations put down by the Jews such as the Canaanites and Samaritans and the Philistines more than likely all disliked the Jews as well.

    A major factor which made Jews (and other nations who did similarly, like Uighurs possibly) despicable in the sight of many others, besides their separatist seeming attitudes, claims of superiority or special status, and destruction of temples and iconoclasm and whatever else or raids and terrorism basically, was their practice of "Usury" or "Taking Interest On Loans" rather than only having to pay back what was given and nothing more.

    The Romans wrote negatively of this practice just as the Chinese wrote negatively of this practice among the Uighur tribes (I'm pretty sure I read somewhere).

    Online Bible

    2No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord, not even in the tenth generation.

    3No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord, not even in the tenth generation. 4For they did not come to meet you with bread and water on your way when you came out of Egypt, and they hired Balaam son of Beor from Pethor in Aram Naharaim to pronounce a curse on you. 5However, the Lord your God would not listen to Balaam but turned the curse into a blessing for you, because the Lord your God loves you. 6Do not seek a treaty of friendship with them as long as you live.

    19Do not charge a fellow Israelite interest, whether on money or food or anything else that may earn interest. 20You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a fellow Israelite, so that the Lord your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess.

    What Does the Bible Say About Charging Interest?

    This was basically considered rude, unjust, and frankly evil, making the Jews seem even more like a little cultish inbred sort of group that was all for themselves (making everyone around them suspicious and offended).

    Usury - Wikipedia.

    "At times, many nations from ancient Greece to ancient Rome have outlawed loans with any interest."

    "During the Sutra period in India (7th to 2nd centuries BC) there were laws prohibiting the highest castes from practicing usury."

  10. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

    Jul 14, 2017
    Syncretic Universal Monotheism
    Part 2:

    So, it is more than likely the people who were attacked and massacred by the Jewish people or Israel according to the Bible didn't much appreciate that, and those who consider themselves sympathizers with those people don't much appreciate what was done.

    The Qur'an seems to condemn those actions as not actually commanded by God as the Bible claims it was. The following are not those verses though:

    17:1 GLORY TO HIM who took His votary to a wide and open land from the Sacred Mosque (at Makkah) to the distant Mosque whose precincts We have blessed, that We may show him some of Our signs. Verily He is all-hearing and all-seeing
    17:2 We gave Moses the Book, and made it a guidance for the children of Israel that they should not take another protector apart from Me
    17:3 O you, the offspring of those We bore (in the ark) with Noah, he was indeed a grateful votary
    17:4 We announced to the children of Israel in the Book: "You will surely create disorder twice in the land, and become exceedingly arrogant."
    17:5 So, when the time of the first prediction came, We sent against you Our creatures full of martial might, who ransacked your cities; and the prediction was fulfilled
    17:6 Then We gave you a chance against them, and strengthened you with wealth and children, and increased your numbers (and said)
    17:7 "If you do good, you will do so for your own good; if you do ill, you will do it for your own loss." So, when the time of the second prediction comes, (We shall rouse another people) to shame you, and enter the Temple as they had done the first time, and to destroy what they conquered utterly
    17:8 Your Lord may haply be merciful to you. But if you repeat it, We shall do the same. We have constituted Hell as prison for unbelievers
    17:9 Verily this Qur'an directs you to the path that is straight, and gives happy tidings to those who believe and do the right: For them is a great reward
    17:10 As for those who do not believe in the Hereafter, We have prepared a painful punishment
    17:11 Man prays for evil as he prays for good, for man is hasty
    17:12 We have created night and day as two signs, then We efface the sign of the night, and make the sign of the day resplendent that you may seek the bounty of your Lord, and know the computation of years and numbers. We have expounded most distinctly everything


    It was far too difficult and strange seeming for all the Great Nations of the world to accept that an obscure tribe of people could be rightfully considered in any way better than themselves, and it was likely perceived as mere ethnic propaganda, perhaps even like that of other nations which may have praised themselves and their heritage. Many factors have led to the Jewish people being disliked one way or another today or considered "other", and when efforts were made in the past to integrate the Jewish people, radicals would try to separate them again, and these radicals are often celebrated (such as in the story of Hanukkah, and many other stories which celebrate events which are hostile to other people, people that are still identified with today, such as Syrians, Greeks, Persians, etc).

    I was talking to a Jewish person who has tried, with great difficulty, to rid himself of self-identification as a Jew, after seeing that he not only believed in any of the stuff, but was also in a very tight community of Reformed Jewish people, some of who were Atheists like himself but were also very much of a similar or singular sort of communal mindset, from which he tried to escape. No doubt, some must consider him a kind of "Lost Sheep" or "Self-Hating Jew", but he didn't go in that direction, he just wanted to be a human being, to see past the prejudices that kept getting repeated within his community, which he described as a sort of "echo-chamber" of ideas. In doing so, he also learned that the Muslims are not the villains his community had generally accepted them to be as a matter of fact, and he could finally see all the racism, bias, and other things that were normal even underneath the words of the most Liberal seeming Atheists in his community which he was very much surrounded by and left ignorant about much of the "real world", and provided only a kind of simulation of it through the filter of his local culture and home life and relatives and their friends who were basically all Reformed Jewish people or Jewish.

    The "Ghettoized" European Immigrant North African and Arabs might resemble in some ways the tendencies that may have occurred among the Jewish populations in earlier times, since any group of people who becomes segregated and alienated or even afraid that they may "lose their identity / culture" or "betray their upbringing" can lead to a sort of gang mentality and further stigma and inability to integrate well and general hostility. This has likely also occurred in Sikh communities where Sikhs sometimes end up forming a sort of Sikh Mafia. Muslims in Europe, much like people of African descent and Latino descent in some places, also formed tribalistic gangs and participate in criminal acts, and this was also something that some Jewish groups in the past had gotten into.

    Jewish-American organized crime - Wikipedia

    Basically, it seems to me, everything is mainly bad about exclusionary worldviews or supremacist worldviews or those which make any particular people separated, even if they are separating themselves due to some positive view, it always ends up somewhere bad one way or another, and shouldn't be done.

    Even the way that Buddhist Monks separate themselves from the "Lay" population has created a lot of problems.

    That is why "Universal" Non-Ethic religions became increasingly the trend, replaced now by Secular World Vision for a more United and Singular Humanity and Human Race:

    Genesis 11:7 -
    7Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8So the LORD scattered them from there over the face of all the earth, and they stopped building the city.9That is why it is called Babel, for there the LORD confused the language of the whole world, and from that place the LORD scattered them over the face of all the earth.
  11. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

    Jul 14, 2017
    Syncretic Universal Monotheism
    What does this sound like to you? If you don't like it, will you throw it out the window (of your life)?

    Jeremiah 2:12
    11Has a nation ever changed its gods, though they are no gods at all? Yet My people have exchanged their Glory for useless idols. 12Be stunned by this, O heavens; be shocked and utterly appalled,” declares the LORD.13“For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, and they have dug their own cisterns—broken cisterns that cannot hold water.

    Numbers 23:19
    God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

    "Two times the Bible says that God regretted something he had done in the past (Genesis 6:6–7 ;
    1 Samuel 15:11
    ). And in at least 15 places the Bible says he regretted, or that he might regret, something he was about to do in the future (
    Exodus 32:12–14 ;
    2 Samuel 24:16 ;
    1 Chronicles 21:15 ;
    Psalms 106:45 ;
    Jeremiah 4:28 ;
    Jeremiah 18:8 ;
    Jeremiah 26:3 ,
    Jeremiah 26:13 ,
    Jeremiah 26:19 ;
    Jeremiah 42:10 ;
    Joel 2:13–14 ;
    Amos 7:3 , Amos 7:6 ;
    Jonah 3:9–10 ;
    Jonah 4:2 ). "