Question on Tibetan sdhan

[Jainarayan]

(and "HH"DL is a very pedestrian nihilist (asat prasangika)).

I'm not deliberately waving a red cape in front of you when I mention him... I just have very few other sources right now.

Seriously, so was he blowing smoke with his comment above? Not a true prasangika emptiness adherent?

 

[Shuddhasattva]

He's just spouting the gelukpa partyline which they entertain as a false conception of prasangika; a rigid, dialectically useless thing inobservant of the two truths, legalistic in its dogmas and undrinking of essential essencelessness. Keep in mind that these are the guys who, through their misunderstanding of prasangika, attempted to wield it as a weapon against the jonangpas and, when that failed, subjugated the jonang by force.

 

[Jainarayan]

I should have known.

I found the definition of prasangika (I know, I rely on Wiki too much )...

"Prasaṅgika Emptiness" is the theory that all things and phenomena lack (or are empty of) any type of inherent identity or self-characterizing essence. This lack of inherent existence does not mean that all phenomena are non-existent; inherent non-existence is also negated by Prasaṅgika emptiness. Prasa

It seems not unlike my understanding and interpretation of shunyata.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Some think it's
in the realm of space,
others connect it
with emptiness:
mostly, they dwell
in contradiction
-Saraha

 

[twilightdance]

without getting lost in words and ultimate nature of things, if one has understood the root human condition of self grasping and how to be free from it - which has nothing much to do with ultimate characterization of an absolute reality, but just the working of the mind ~ all deities should be fine.

 

[twilightdance]

It seems not unlike my understanding and interpretation of shunyata.

So,

Does Vishnu exist as an absolute entity, the brahman, a supreme God taking human birth to establish order in society.

OR

Is he inherently empty, not existing any more or any less than you or I do?

 

[twilightdance]

He's just spouting the gelukpa partyline which they entertain as a false conception of prasangika; a rigid, dialectically useless thing inobservant of the two truths, legalistic in its dogmas and undrinking of essential essencelessness. Keep in mind that these are the guys who, through their misunderstanding of prasangika, attempted to wield it as a weapon against the jonangpas and, when that failed, subjugated the jonang by force.

I am not so sure if Gelugpa view of prasangika madhyamaka is false, their understanding does have a merit to not cling on to vikalpas for beginners like me. For me the bigger issue is their dark history, politically driven murder and persecution of other sects, and general lack of siddha lifestyle or attainments one may encounter occasionally in other sects especially Kagyupas and Nyngmas to an extent.

However unfortunately after tibet occupation all sects have found it more necessary to acknowledge the dalai lama much more and accommodate his views.

 

[Jainarayan]

So,

Does Vishnu exist as an absolute entity, the brahman, a supreme God taking human birth to establish order in society.

OR

Is he inherently empty, not existing any more or any less than you or I do?

"Prasaṅgika Emptiness" is the theory that all things and phenomena lack (or are empty of) any type of inherent identity or self-characterizing essence. This lack of inherent existence does not mean that all phenomena are non-existent; inherent non-existence is also negated by Prasaṅgika emptiness. Prasa

Is Vishnu a thing or a phenomenon? Whence comes the inference or question that he is inherently empty, not existing any more or any less than you or I do?