Question from a non-pagan

[Runlikethewind]

Greetings! I was born and raised Catholic and have very little experience and understanding of Pagan belief system. In fact joining RF has been my first real exposure to paganism. So I have a specific question that I wish to ask out of curiosity and a desire to learn more about your beliefs. For some reason I get this nagging feeling that asking this particular question might be taken as offensive to some, maybe I am wrong. Anyway understand that this is being asked out of ignorance and no offense is meant.

I was talking with an acquaintance a few weeks back he is not a pagan but apparently he has done some reading on the subject. Anyway he claims that ancient pagans such as the Greeks and Romans where actually more monotheistic than polytheistic. He claimed that although they worshiped different gods they actually saw these gods as being more akin to angelic or demonic beings and that there was an overriding one God of force or energy or a 'one God to rule them all' sort of thing. So my question is a bit historical and a bit personal. Did early pagans or do you see your gods as being gods in the strict sense or are they more like angels, spirits, etc? Did early pagans or do you believe in any kind of unifying force or 'one God to rule them all' or something along those lines?

I hope this question is not too vague but any enlightenment might help, thanks.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

Well, I see my gods as individual, distinct, and unique beings. with their own personalities and traits. they are not omnipotent or omnibenevolent, they have their own failings and strengths. I love them as family, and they love me. I help them if asked and they do likewise. hope this helps, if you have any specific questions do not be afraid to ask. the fact that you said you made any errors in your questions out of ignorance is a sign of wisdom. i'm thrilled that you wish to learn more about us. alas i'm afraid your friend is rather mistaken. for the most part anyways.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They were indeed monothiestic, but thier was a sort of "system" set up. Different Gods ruled over different aspects of life, and each one playing a different role.
The Greeks for example, Zues was one of the Gods who were "at the top." And then there were his sons, daughters, other gods, his own father (Kronos, one of the Titans), and so one. It was more of a type of family in an odd sort of way. The Greeks would follow a particular patron, or more, but acknowledge more than that.

 

[Draka]

Greetings! I was born and raised Catholic and have very little experience and understanding of Pagan belief system. In fact joining RF has been my first real exposure to paganism. So I have a specific question that I wish to ask out of curiosity and a desire to learn more about your beliefs. For some reason I get this nagging feeling that asking this particular question might be taken as offensive to some, maybe I am wrong. Anyway understand that this is being asked out of ignorance and no offense is meant.

I was talking with an acquaintance a few weeks back he is not a pagan but apparently he has done some reading on the subject. Anyway he claims that ancient pagans such as the Greeks and Romans where actually more monotheistic than polytheistic. He claimed that although they worshiped different gods they actually saw these gods as being more akin to angelic or demonic beings and that there was an overriding one God of force or energy or a 'one God to rule them all' sort of thing. So my question is a bit historical and a bit personal. Did early pagans or do you see your gods as being gods in the strict sense or are they more like angels, spirits, etc? Did early pagans or do you believe in any kind of unifying force or 'one God to rule them all' or something along those lines?

I hope this question is not too vague but any enlightenment might help, thanks.

I wouldn't exactly call it monotheism. More of a heirarchy, much like Christianity. It still is to be considered polytheism because you are definitely recognizing, honoring, and worshipping more than one god/goddess. There is an order to things, however, and that is what you are seeing here. One or two "Great Gods/Goddesses" that are of some higher standing and power than the rest. The ones that are considered "parents" of sorts. The same can be said of Christianity. It actually follows much of the older Pagan ideas when it comes to supernatural heirarchy. Since there are those who honor and pray to certain angels (which are mainly thought to be influencing certain aspects of life), they can be just as much considered to be "minor gods" as any of the Pagan ones.

All together, what you are seeing here is the same religious archetypes shown through all of them. A "family" order with "parental" figures and "brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles" who help us through different areas of life.

 

[Kcnorwood]

I wouldn't exactly call it monotheism. More of a heirarchy, much like Christianity. It still is to be considered polytheism because you are definitely recognizing, honoring, and worshipping more than one god/goddess. There is an order to things, however, and that is what you are seeing here. One or two "Great Gods/Goddesses" that are of some higher standing and power than the rest. The ones that are considered "parents" of sorts. The same can be said of Christianity. It actually follows much of the older Pagan ideas when it comes to supernatural heirarchy. Since there are those who honor and pray to certain angels (which are mainly thought to be influencing certain aspects of life), they can be just as much considered to be "minor gods" as any of the Pagan ones.

All together, what you are seeing here is the same religious archetypes shown through all of them. A "family" order with "parental" figures and "brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles" who help us through different areas of life.

Nice explantion! :bow:

 

[Runlikethewind]

Thanks for the input! I had a feeling that my acquaintance was mistaken or misinterpreting what he had studied. Now that my curiosity has been more fully aroused I'll spend some time perusing the rest of the pagan threads to gain a better understanding, if I have any more questions I'll be sure and ask.

Thanks again!

 

[bflydad]

I have read some reports that prior to Zeus or Kronos (his father) or Uranus (his father), there was a single Goddess (Gaia) or God (Eros). I'm afraid I don't have more information than this (I think I came across this in Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces but I'm not sure).

However, one website with a fairly comprehensive family tree of gods is http://www.theoi.com/Tree.html

Hope this help

 

[Runlikethewind]

Thanks again everyone for indulging my curiosity. I have more questions. just got through reading the thread Misconceptions/ questions about Paganism started by Feathers in Hair. Its nice to see that you don't worship Satan or eat babies and that you are not all witches. Of course as far as eating babies I never thought that about pagans anyway, only fat Scotsman eat babies.

get in my belly!!!!However I might have believed all pagans where witches, anyway I don't think it now.

Anyway on to my question. I can't remember where I got this idea but do your gods/goddesses derive their power from the worship received or do they have power independent of anyones worship? And on a similar note since paganism isn't as popular as it once was, in the days of the Greeks and Romans for example, do your gods/goddesses get jealous or angry that most people no longer worship them? Or am I wrong about paganism being less popular, considering the population of the world is so much larger perhaps the relatively small number of pagans out there is comparable to past times. Or maybe there are more pagans than I am aware of.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

heh heh heh, i almost forgot about that thread., as for where the Gods get their power from....who knows? might be alittle bit of both.

 

[Gentoo]

Anyway on to my question. I can't remember where I got this idea but do your gods/goddesses derive their power from the worship received or do they have power independent of anyones worship?

Good question, I think that their power is independant of anyone's worship, but the worship helps, like it helps their self-esteem or something to that matter.

And on a similar note since paganism isn't as popular as it once was, in the days of the Greeks and Romans for example, do your gods/goddesses get jealous or angry that most people no longer worship them?

That would depend on both who you talk to and who they worship. You mentioned the Greek and Roman gods, who were by nature, quite jealous beings. But gods from other pantheons are quite content with the number of followers they have rather than worry about the followers they don't have.

Or am I wrong about paganism being less popular, considering the population of the world is so much larger perhaps the relatively small number of pagans out there is comparable to past times. Or maybe there are more pagans than I am aware of.

Again, that depends. There really is no qualifying definition that equals PAGANISM. Different people have different ideas on what paganism even entails, so its popularity depends heavily on whose definition you're using.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I can't remember where I got this idea but do your gods/goddesses derive their power from the worship received or do they have power independent of anyones worship?

I'm a pantheist of some kind (possibly panentheist, but I'm still trying to work it out), and I believe that we are extensions of that God. Any power is intrinsic and related to a consciousness Will.

 

[Runlikethewind]

That would depend on both who you talk to and who they worship. You mentioned the Greek and Roman gods, who were by nature, quite jealous beings. But gods from other pantheons are quite content with the number of followers they have rather than worry about the followers they don't have.

Again, that depends. There really is no qualifying definition that equals PAGANISM. Different people have different ideas on what paganism even entails, so its popularity depends heavily on whose definition you're using.

Thanks again for the input. One thing that I am just now coming to realize is this point about the very nature of paganism. I get so frustrated sometimes when people lump all Christians into one camp and then judge us all on some fundamentalist extreme view of Christianity. And now here I am guilty of the very same thing lumping all pagans into one camp! So I guess the real answer to my question would be that some gods/goddesses are jealous and others are not.

as for where the Gods get their power from....who knows? might be alittle bit of both.

Interesting, their existence as a god or goddess perhaps being independent of worship but their power might grow in proportion to the amount or sincerity of worship received or something, maybe...

 

[Gentoo]

Thanks again for the input. One thing that I am just now coming to realize is this point about the very nature of paganism. I get so frustrated sometimes when people lump all Christians into one camp and then judge us all on some fundamentalist extreme view of Christianity. And now here I am guilty of the very same thing lumping all pagans into one camp! So I guess the real answer to my question would be that some gods/goddesses are jealous and others are not.

I'm glad to help Please ask more questions if you come up with any.

 

[CelticRavenwolf]

The idea that your friend was talking about about one Omnipotent Deity is more of a Neo-Pagan idea than one that was held in ancient times. A lot of Neo-pagans like to look at all gods/goddess of the earth - their own included - being simply the many facets of One God. Just as a woman can be Mother, Sister, Daughter, Wife, Grandmother and Aunt, God is Jesus, Buddha, Sekmet, Herne, Shiva, Yahweh, etc. Same Deity, different perception.

But to reiterate, this is a Neo-Pagan, that is, modern viewpoint. Others have described the ancient viewpoint pretty accurately, so I'll not repeat it. The ancient deities of the Celts, Norse, Greeks and Romans, had their own heirarchies and top dogs, but there is no suggestion of one all powerful entity that has dominion over these gods as the Christian God does over angels.

 

[wicca_woman]

As far as Paganism not being very popular , I read recently that it is on the rise. Some people are looking into it for the wrong reasons but hopefully they will read something that REALLY makes sense to them and do it for the right reasons .)shout

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Good questions, Runwiththewind! Thanks for giving us something to discuss! (We like to talk, hehee!)

 

[Dream Angel]

Interesting thread I have a friend who is pagan though have never really fully understood the belief myself!

A question to Runlikethewind (interesting your catholic) and the rest of you. Isnt catholicsm (cant spell apolgise if its wrong) similar to paganism then? as in I know you dont worship "Gods" as such but you have saints which are there to pray for different things such as health, lost things etc etc (please correct me if I am wrong)

Question for pagans - again this is complete ignorance! but is there any form of your faith/belief/things you do which do take a "witchlike" form - obviously I am not talking about riding broom sticks with point hats here! though that would be pretty cool! For example my friend says that she does practise spells.

Many Thanks

 

[Gentoo]

Interesting thread I have a friend who is pagan though have never really fully understood the belief myself!

A question to Runlikethewind (interesting your catholic) and the rest of you. Isnt catholicsm (cant spell apolgise if its wrong) similar to paganism then? as in I know you dont worship "Gods" as such but you have saints which are there to pray for different things such as health, lost things etc etc (please correct me if I am wrong)

As a former Catholic I feel I can say: NO. The saints are not worshipped in any way, they are not held to the same esteem that their God is. There is a major difference between praying to someone and worshipping them.

Question for pagans - again this is complete ignorance! but is there any form of your faith/belief/things you do which do take a "witchlike" form - obviously I am not talking about riding broom sticks with point hats here! though that would be pretty cool! For example my friend says that she does practise spells.

Many Thanks

I consider myself a witch, I do spells every so often. If you want me to go deeper, I'm afraid you'll have to ask more specific questions, I don't do so well with vague ones

 

[Dream Angel]

As a former Catholic I feel I can say: NO. The saints are not worshipped in any way, they are not held to the same esteem that their God is. There is a major difference between praying to someone and worshipping them.



I consider myself a witch, I do spells every so often. If you want me to go deeper, I'm afraid you'll have to ask more specific questions, I don't do so well with vague ones

Thanks Gentoo, you answered the questions well!! wow going from catholic to a witch... may I ask what converted you? I can see what you mean with the saints, I will be honest and say I am not sure about it... The saints have the power to grant things (eg a lost item to be found) of which you pray to them for, which some people would say that only God should be able to do. Thanks for the info anyway!

 

[Runlikethewind]

As a former Catholic I feel I can say: NO. The saints are not worshipped in any way, they are not held to the same esteem that their God is. There is a major difference between praying to someone and worshipping them.

Agreed.