Question for Gaudiya Vaishnava's

[ratikala]

namaskaram Shiva Fan ji

I concede all endowed knowledge of Lord Krishna and Radha and all Bhakti to you RatiKala. You are our Shishya Guru always in that regard. You are proven.

all credit must go to Guru and Gouranga , ...without them I have no Knowledge

but I thank you prabhu ji for your ever joyfull association , ...and I thank you for inadvertantly raising a subject which had been on my mind , .....

You have given me an idea for a new thread , ... @Prayag Das ji recently raised the very poingient question Is Initiation Necessary for Gaudiya Vaishnavas?
https://www.religiousforums.com/posts/4193782/
I would like to follow this Question with an exploration of the Qualities of a True Guru , this is a question relevant not only to Gaudiya Vaisnavas but to all Hindus who wish to devote them selves to Bhakti Jnana or Karma Yoga , .....https://www.religiousforums.com/posts/4193782/
....
the Qualities of a true Guru | ReligiousForums.com
Let us discuss and therefore discover the qualities of a True Guru so that no genuine aspirant makes the mistake of following the instructions of an ill qualified Guru , ...

please join us in glorifyig these qualities

 

[Amrut]

Namaste All,

The basic problem is that people try to understand advaita from their own POV.

Advaita does not accept pariNAma vAda, though at times it is used w.r.t. vyavaArika satya.

In advaita, jIva does not BECOME Siva (Krishna) -- just used Shiva for rhyming There is no transformation. An e.g. is snake-rope.

So the argument that can you become Krishna, show virATa svarUpa, and replicate his holy deeds. The simple answer is - 'No' . dont worry. We wont become your beloved bansidhara Krishna, the person. Even ISvara has 6 upAdhi-s. why are they calle das upAdhi-s? The suddha svarUpa is without any upAdhi-s.

Advita rests on smArta dharma, which revers all major forms of ISvara as supreme and are same as Brahman. Hence, advaitins are not athiests.

The bhakti is abheda bhakti, but from jIva POV, yes duality exists and all accept duality. Even the statement jIvo brahmaiva nApara ) jIva and Brahman are not two) has duality. It indicates there is

(1) jIva and (2) brahman --> vacyArtha

But laxyArtha is they are one. Hence our journey is from duality to non-duality.

Srila Prabhupada has at times purposefully misinterpreted advaita and kept accusing Adi SankarAcArya by creating strawman and then knowcking it down creating a false sense of victory.

As said by Makaranda, one must understand advaita from advaita AcArya-s and not from non-advaitins.

All accepts two types of reality

1. Dependent - jIva and jagat
2. Independent - Isvara / Brahman

Even advaita accepts vyavahArika satya and pArmArthika satya. but truth according to BG 2.16, as interpreted from advaita POV is that truth is eternal, and does not suffer from non-existence. Untruth never exits. Hence it is concluded that, that which is experienced but is not eternal and is not experienced in nirvikalp samAdhi does nto qualify to be called as real.

Also note that we do not contemplate on mAyA, we ignore it, and comtemplate on Brahman. Hence advait ais brahma-vAda. Sunya vAda is so called as the final destination is Sunya avasthA, while for advaitins it is not mAyA, but it is brahman. Infact after certain level of maturity and attaining calmness of mind, we do not think of mAyA, or whether it is real or unreal or mithyA. But we keep out mind engaged in Brahman and try to find the source of mantra OM or do neti-neti and reach the source of everything, which is Brahman.

The definition of brahman from upanishads is like indescribable, SAntam, Sivam, advaitam, satyam, GYAnam, anantam, immutable, immovableetc. and so it is the only thing that qualifies for being called as truth.

Unreal means false. mithyA is not unreal, as it is experienced, but is not experienced in nirvikalp samAdhi. Hence it is either real. It is constantly changing. Three guNa-s keep changing. Brahman does not need to move, as it is all-pervading.

Also homosexuality / lesbian, etc are not supported by any vedika-s, as it does not satisfy kAma vAsanA and it is reported that many incur disease in later stage of life which accompanies till death. (read somewhere). Natural defects also need to be cured and not encouraged.

Regarding philosophical differences, a lot can be debated, but will derail this thread. I think they are better left alone, as it may create unrest within ourselves.

Many do not like the working ways of Srila Prabhupada who had to interact with hippies and so must have to make statements which we may find it harsh and difficult to absorb.

Hari OM

 

[Makaranda]

I really don't enjoy these types of back and forth discussions. Monism vs. Dualism has been argued for tens of thousands of years. I don't think we will come to an agreement, so this is wasted energy. Your interpretation of the Bhagavad-Gita is completely different than mine.

Very well! I will leave it there for now

Wishing you well.

 

[Acintya_Ash]

As I indicated you are conflating bhakti with jnana path. It does not lead to Realisation.

Sri Madhvacharya says "bhakti combined with jnana and vairagya is the only path for attainment of Moksha, one should first practice 'Vairagya' which leads to 'bhakti' which in turn leads to the desire for 'jnana'; once the path is laid the two, jnana and bhakti go hand-in-hand to lead us in the path of attaining His grace, which alone can grant us the ultimate goal of reaching His abode."

 

[Shantanu]

Sri Madhvacharya says "bhakti combined with jnana and vairagya is the only path for attainment of Moksha, one should first practice 'Vairagya' which leads to 'bhakti' which in turn leads to the desire for 'jnana'; once the path is laid the two, jnana and bhakti go hand-in-hand to lead us in the path of attaining His grace, which alone can grant us the ultimate goal of reaching His abode."

Please tell me what is 'Vairagya' and how I may practice it.

 

[Acintya_Ash]

Please tell me what is 'Vairagya' and how I may practice it.

This book can help http://www.dlshq.org/download/vairagya.pdf

 

[Shantanu]

This book can help http://www.dlshq.org/download/vairagya.pdf

I have briefly studied Sir Swami Sivananda's analysis and prescription and do not think it is right: do you wish to discuss it if I start a new thread on 'What is Vairagya', or send you a PM?

 

[Acintya_Ash]

I have briefly studied Sir Swami Sivananda's analysis and prescription and do not think it is right: do you wish to discuss it if I start a new thread on 'What is Vairagya', or send you a PM?

You can start a thread perhaps,as i'm not expert enough to instruct anyone and also everyone can contribute if its a thread

 

[Shantanu]

Vairagya thread: The limitations of Vairagya (renunciation) | ReligiousForums.com